Face masks made ‘little to no difference’ in preventing spread of COVID, scientific review finds

They had experience with SARS-CoV in 2003. They had a darn good idea about how it spread right away.

 

And yet still spread nonsense about masking

 

Beats me. I was able to get good protection...



... because so many people were duped into thinking surgical masks were effective.

 

Yep, apt of people, mostly left wing, were absolutely fooled into believing a flimsy cloth mask was going to help.

It was one of the more interesting examples of social engineering I’ve seen.

 

QUOTE="LangleyMan, post: 1074345960, member: 76487"]They had experience with SARS-CoV in 2003. They had a darn good idea about how it spread right away.[/QUOTE]

And they had a darn good way of dealing with it. SARS-CoV-1 was much easier to get under control than SARS-CoV-2 due to the fact it was contagious with the occurrence of symptoms unlike SARS-CoV-2 that is infectious prior to the onset of symptoms. SARS-1 did not burn itself out of existence. The outbreak was brought under control by simple public health measures like testing people with symptoms and isolating and quarantining suspected cases as well as by restricting travel. Onward transmission was prevented by isolating those with symptoms. With SARS-2 with asymptomatic infection and being extremely contagious prior to symptom onset, it was extremely difficult to get it under control. This is why governments around the world were insisting on the measures that were necessary to try to slow the spread.

All the asshats refusing to wear any kind of mask, refusing to social distance, and mixing and mingling while infected with no symptoms made it way worse. Onward transmission was virtually guaranteed by human beings being idiots.

Surgical masks are effective but N95 masks are much much better. Something is better than nothing. Masks are not useless as already described. What has been done in the past few years is working on the invention of new mask materials that are thin like surgical masks but will filter out all viruses and engineered to fit better like the N95 masks. That should make a next pandemic less dangerous to the vulnerable BUT all the idiots that are pretty sure masks are useless and stupid will ensure that onward transmission continues and more people than necessary will die. This not an American ‘leftie’ issue, it’s a worldwide issue and it’s unfortunate that the American government lied to the public, mixed up the public, was totally unprepared, didn’t take it seriously, and had a woefully useless president leading them into many more deaths than necessary.

 

That is why they asked people to do what they did. They were trying their best to encourage people to b e aware of breathing on others. You say the mask did not work. In that argument you argue technical issues of the limitation of certain but not all masks. I get that and do not argue with it. As MuchADo and so many others have pointed out, no one stated the face masks being used were 100% effective. No one. In fact the very same health sources that said to wear the mask also provided info in their limitations and it is there to this day on public domain.

What I would argue Langley is that asking people to put on even those masks with limitations did have an effect-a psychological effect that served as a warning to distance, not cough and sneeze out loud, and was a behavioural reminder to distance when seeing others with the mask.

Also you say it did not work. The data says otherwise. Was it full proof no. Did it help and was it something our health resources had an obligation to ask us to help do yes.

Next your argument misses another valuable point. If that mask you say was ineffective was 100% ineffective prove it. Not one ounce of data extolling the limitations of certain masks never said 100% ineffective. So with that I argue this for me and so many others and why we wore that mask knowing it was not a panacea-if we could show the front line people like taxi drivers, bus drivers, teachers, all the first responders, i.e., orderlies, nurses, doctors, paramedics, police, fire, social workers, senior and other health care works, we were willing to wear the mask-we showed them respect and thanks. That to me was a crucial message. Also for people who could not take the vaccine due to chronic conditions and disabilities it was important for me and others to show them I cared and did not want to accidentally kill them by spreading the virus/

That mask was not just for limited contaminant effect-it was a positive psychological symbol of working together. Why that is dismissed with this narrow, myopic, negative take it had no purpose I do not understand and that Langley I take care to argue. I think too many use the ineffective contaminant containment limitation as a pretext to dismiss its other purposes and effects.

In your case I have read many of your responses. I do not think you deliberately would deny what I said about limited effect and psychology and are referring only to the contaminant containment limitations. I do not claim you argue otherwise but I wanted to get that point across not directly to you but many others poo pooing the mask to this day as second guessers.

 

Not any less interesting than the MAGA nonsense.

 

The masks were largely ineffective.

Lying to adults for their own good? I'm not a fan.

The data being?

Let's say it was 5% effective. Worn properly, this filters 99.97% of virus particles...



You can buy it for $25. This is great protection for older people and those with conditions that might lead to serious illness.

A lot of these people should have worn respirators like the one above.

Embracing measures helpful to those at risk shows you care. Those early store hours for seniors at Costco were keeping them a little safer.

If you want to say all this about the presumed psychological effect of mask mandates, you'll be telling the truth about masks, but telling them they'll be protected is wrong, especially when they can have effective protection.

 

Not even comparable

 

And they had a darn good way of dealing with it. SARS-CoV-1 was much easier to get under control than SARS-CoV-2 due to the fact it was contagious with the occurrence of symptoms unlike SARS-CoV-2 that is infectious prior to the onset of symptoms. SARS-1 did not burn itself out of existence. The outbreak was brought under control by simple public health measures like testing people with symptoms and isolating and quarantining suspected cases as well as by restricting travel. Onward transmission was prevented by isolating those with symptoms. With SARS-2 with asymptomatic infection and being extremely contagious prior to symptom onset, it was extremely difficult to get it under control. This is why governments around the world were insisting on the measures that were necessary to try to slow the spread.

All the asshats refusing to wear any kind of mask, refusing to social distance, and mixing and mingling while infected with no symptoms made it way worse. Onward transmission was virtually guaranteed by human beings being idiots.




Surgical masks are effective but N95 masks are much much better. Something is better than nothing. Masks are not useless as already described. What has been done in the past few years is working on the invention of new mask materials that are thin like surgical masks but will filter out all viruses and engineered to fit better like the N95 masks. That should make a next pandemic less dangerous to the vulnerable BUT all the idiots that are pretty sure masks are useless and stupid will ensure that onward transmission continues and more people than necessary will die. This not an American ‘leftie’ issue, it’s a worldwide issue and it’s unfortunate that the American government lied to the public, mixed up the public, was totally unprepared, didn’t take it seriously, and had a woefully useless president leading them into many more deaths than necessary.[/QUOTE]
Surgical masks are not efffective lol.

 

Yes, and...? My point was that they had staff caring for patients wearing respirators. They had to at least suspect SARS-CoV-2 was transmitted as an aerosol.

We can test people for covid symptoms. We can ask people to test themselves, and pay them to stay home if they're positive. We can test family and acquaintances of patients and ask them to stay home if they're positive. That worked until the variants became much more transmissible.

At that point, the best way to protect yourself is to wear high-quality PPE when you're with other people.

Why wear an N95 when you can wear an N100 respirator?

 

No one lied. No one stated the masks were 100% effective. Again you make two false assertions.

Provide proof of the lying.

Here is what was actually said:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...esources/Important-Steps-to-Choosing-Mask.pdf

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...s/about-non-medical-masks-face-coverings.html

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea.../coronavirus-face-masks-what-you-need-to-know

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...sk-wearing-coronavirus-prevention-infographic

https://newsinhealth.nih.gov/2021/11/face-masks-covid-19

The info on masks is still on public domain. No one lied. Who lied? Provide the sources that lied and what they said.

Why do you continue to make allegations that slur the entire medical community as liars.

This tactic of throwing out smears is tiresome and it lacks any credibility and so call you out on the group smears. None of the people you accuse of lying did. No one who told us to wear masks said they were 100% perfect. What they said is there for all to read.

 

That didn’t even occur to any great extent at any time. Were tests distributed throughout the country with enough for people to test every single day? That is what has to occur with a virus that is contagious before you show symptoms and or if you are asymptomatic. And the home tests were less sensitive so you could be infected without showing as infected and go out and spread it around. This is also why wearing masks and social distancing was important but because people are idiots the virus spread way more than it should have.

Many people couldn’t even cope with a surgical mask. N100 respirators are no good for children, they don’t fit properly on people with lots of facial hair and it’s not entirely necessary to wear a respirator as opposed to a mask that is 95 percent effective in most environments. They are also large and bulky. It’s overkill in many cases. Masks also aren’t the only thing one has to pay attention to. One can become infected by getting the virus in your eyes or by touching an infected surface and then touching your eyes or mouth. The amount of ventilation in a room is important and the number of people who might be infected and how close you are to them. All masks are effective to some extent because they put a barrier between you and others. The more filtration the better with a good fit around the face. Those who are saying masks are useless have no idea what they are talking about and aren’t considering everything.

 

No, I saw Fauci admit he lied about "masks" to save the N95s and N100s for the medical community. It was a shocking admission when you considering he never talked about the quality of protection.

Which do you think is better--an N95 face mask or this P100 respirator with eye protection?



None of your sources told us a P100 respirator filters 99.97% of particles, much more than the 95% of an N95. All they do is tell you how to wear masks.

If you're silent when the public is misinformed, you have to "wear it."





Why shouldn't you know you can have superior protection for $50? After Fauci misled us, good cause or not, he could have pressed the government to mass produce better PPE, or at least made clear the potential advantages.

 

They were "contact tracing."

Contract tracing tested everyone in close contact.

N95s don't work properly with beards, either. N100s are far more effective than N95s. That's why healthcare providers use them.

They're less annoying than a surgical mask.

So don't touch your eyes or mouth.

Ventilation is far less important if you're wearing a P100 respirator.

Apparently, you're unaware of how much better a P100 respirator is and how easy they are to wear.

 

I got a white Tyvek hooded resprirator for asbestos abatement work.

Its very effective against covid. Not because of the filtration but because of the hood. It covers airborne vapors from getting into my eyes and ears and everyone stays way more than six feet away because they seem to think I either just landed from space travel or that I am a KKK member.

 

In the US contact tracing was instituted by very few states which resulted in the unnecessary deaths of thousands. So what you have just said is not true.

I never said N95s are effective with beards.
People touch their eyes and mouths unconsciously numerous times a day.

This is what I’m aware of. As mask effectiveness rises, the cumulative number of cases decreases. Cases also decrease with more people wearing masks consistently and properly. Despite the false claims on this thread, mildly effective masks did decrease transmission. N100 masks are the most effective at filtering out airborne particles but they are not foolproof when in close contact with an infected person. They are most effective at reducing the risk of inhaling the virus. They are really only advisable in high risk environments like airports and hospitals. Not all hospital staff were wearing them during the pandemic.

Cloth masks made of several layers of tightly woven cotton are effective at diminishing the spread of covid. The countries that mandated face coverings saw fewer deaths and covid cases. Despite what you sat about Fauci, the US government was woefully unprepared for the pandemic and didn’t have a stockpile of N95 masks to cover the population. So if you have a limited resource, you provide the best masks to people in high risk situations where likelihood of transmission is extremely high. Cloth and surgical masks were fine in less risky situations like shopping with social distancing. Should your government not have saved masks for high risk situations? Most people were not at risk of dying from covid. In hospitals, if large numbers of staff were off sick with covid, it put a large strain on an already overloaded healthcare system which again is why the best masks were suggested more medical staff when other masks were good enough for the population in most situations. Nobody lied. Anybody could have gone online and ordered a N95 - N100 mask, it wasn’t forbidden. If you take a look at the world, governments were not suggesting N95 masks for the general population . As I said before countries with mask mandates saw less deaths and cases and the population was mostly wearing surgical masks.

 

Interesting.

When people were wearing masks, this got a small amount of attention...

 

Not when you're wearing the above protection.

Marginally.

They filter 99.97% of the particles.

Says who? I wore this...



... when masks were required in stores.

Not very effective.

But they could have pulled the high quality PPE off retail shelves and delivered to the government. They could have then ordered production of high quality PPE for the public (forced producers to license production) and explained why they pulled the better "masks" from retailers.

No, they weren't "fine" and government should have then ordered production of better PPE and prioritized distribution to the public based on risk.

Yes, and they did.

Wrong. The government lied and they're still misleading the public about "masks."

Right. They lied, probably for the same reason Fauci said our government lied, and then in part to coverup our unwillingness to force producers to license production.

Countries that high levels of masking may also have more social distancing.

 

Obviously, but does one wear this kind of protection 100 percent of the time? No.

The USA had the highest number of deaths due to lack of masking, wearing masks improperly, slow response, lack of testing and so on. You are posting misinformation because wearing masks properly, having good hygiene, and social distancing decreased the number of infections in countries that did this. You keep pushing your N100 mask as the be all and end all but are ignoring research, real world numbers, and trying to state masks don’t work.

If you are sitting close to a person who is breathing out a high volume of virus particles and is unmasked, .03 percent of the particles that could enter your respiratory tract is enough to infect you. They are not 100 percent effective and if you have a poor fit chances are even greater to be infected.

I said the respirators were really only advisable in hospitals and airports which are places where you were likely to get infected. Just because you wore one doesn’t mean it was advisable for everybody.

Again, cloth masks made with several layers of tightly woven fabric with a good fit were effective. Like I have been saying — different masks had different efficacy. Using all the measures — hand hygiene, distancing, masks — did decrease transmission.

If every a high proportion of Americans wore masks properly, practiced social distancing, and had good hand hygiene, it would have been fine not to have everybody slap on N100 respirator.

They didn’t lie. You are misleading people right here on this thread. Did you actually expect them to know everything about a novel virus from day one and having your orange stained President in charge made matters much worse. Hindsight is great and it’s obvious mistakes were made, information was changed, etc etc. That doesn’t mean that masks were ineffective.

High levels of masking plus social distancing is the most beneficial. You can’t treat masks as the only intervention to decrease transmission, it’s about more than that.

 

I wore them virtually 100% of the time in public places indoors.

Why make up crap? What's with you, anyway? I've posted a lot of information about vaccines.

Better quality PPE could have saved a lot of older people.

Better quality respirators do fit well. You can check the fit, too.

Not advisable according to whom? Why not?

They don't, so why shouldn't people wear effective PPE?

Of course, they lied. They so misrepresented the truth about masks that people are wearing them thinking they're effective at protecting themselves.

Doesn't it bother you, even a little, you're misinforming people who need better protection because of their age or health?

So who said "masks" should be the only mitigation effort?

 

I wore a N95 mask 100 percent of the time in public places indoors and I was around quite a few infected people during the pandemic. If everybody had done this, there wouldn’t have been so many deaths but it wasn’t going to happen.

I’m not making up crap, you tout N100 respirators and post numerous photos of them. Whether you talk about vaccines is a moot point.

I know you can check the fit on respirators and medical people are supposed to check the fit each and every time they put them on. How many idiots did you see walking around during the pandemic wearing a mask with their nose uncovered? One moron I encountered when I was in the grocery took off her mask, coughed all over the produce and put it back on. I bet if the government had handed out respirators to every single adult in the US, they would have been worn improperly, not worn at all, not cleaned and disinfected properly and so on. You were very sensible to wear a highly protective mask during the pandemic and to me it seems you would be the type of person who would do it properly, but alas the world is full of idiots who can’t even be bothered to look up how to wear a mask, how to handle it properly, when to dispose of it.

I am not disagreeing with you related to that better quality PPE could have saved older people but lots of illness could have been halted if everybody had been wearing some kind of mask, wore them properly, socially distanced, avoided crowded places, and kept their hands free of germs. That is not misinformation. Nor is it misinformation to say something was better than nothing. I personally believe that anybody who was elderly or had some preexisting condition should have been issued N95 masks or better immediately and for free. They were the ones that needed the highest level of protection. If everybody else had worn some kind of mask, things would have been much better. I don’t see how it would have been possible to issue a whole population with the best masks during the whole pandemic and even if that had been done, a country wide mask mandate would have been necessary the whole times. There are just too many things to consider if one really thinks about it.

I wonder why it is that I have worked with some patients (prior to the pandemic) who have been hospitalized with serious pneumonias secondary to influenza and have never gotten sick despite only wearing one of those useless surgical masks. Was it just luck or maybe surgical masks are effective along with other measures not to get infected. I am not misinforming people whatsoever. My nephew has cystic fibrosis and it’s serious even if he gets a mild cold. The whole family had to be extremely careful during the pandemic not to bring covid into the house. They had to wear surgical masks because they just couldn’t get better PPE until later in the pandemic. I showed the family how to tie the loops on the mask so it wouldn’t have large gaps in it. Nobody in that family got covid and if surgical masks are so useless, why not? Why don’t you go after the people on this thread that are calling all masks totally useless, stupid, and ineffective which is total misinformation. Talk about a callous disregard for vulnerable people like my nephew. Anyways, you seem to be misinterpreting and misunderstanding everything I’m saying, or maybe I’m not being clear, so I will stop replying to you.

 

You need to learn when you accuse people of lying to present the statement you claim was a lie to prove who said it and then prove evidence to show what they said was a lie.

You do not. Can you please if you want to be treated with respect and credibility not make sweeping accusations of anyone lying without proving it. When you do so, you clearly show you smear all health care providers, first responders, governments who put their lives on the line to protect others.

Next when you claim to represent what Fauci said provide what he said. You have not.

The more you make your sweeping allegations the more shrill you sound. Come on man. Back up what you say when you make such sweeping falsehoods you know insult the integrity of millions of good people including my doctors, paralegals, police officers, firefighters, bus drivers, tax drivers, on and on.

Next your comment Fauci said the government lied about masks is false.

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...sing-old-fauci-email-falsely-claims-fauci-li/

 

Just in case members don’t click on the link:

“The post cites an email Fauci sent Feb. 5, 2020, when the consensus among public health experts was for people generally not to wear masks unless they had symptoms of illness. At the time, researchers did not know that people without symptoms were spreading the virus. The guidance from Fauci and other experts changed in April 2020, as more evidence about the virus and its transmission emerged, and mask wearing was widely recommended.”

That certainly isn’t lying. They were dealing with a novel virus and they knew it was like SARS-CoV-1 almost immediately and they knew from SARS-1 that it was infectious when the person had symptoms which is why they weren’t all about masks from the earliest days. The guidance changed when they figured out you could transmit it even if you had no symptoms. When scientists do research on anything and find out they were initially wrong about something, they don’t get accused of lying, they understand more research was needed to get to the right answers. There are still many things that are being researched related to covid and if they find out something different from what they initially thought, are the scientists going to be verbally attacked and defamed just for being wrong.

 

Then the CDC rewrote the dictionary with a brand new and improved definition of "vaccine". It used to be that a vaccine provided immunity. Now a vaccine only needs to provide protection against a virus.

I am capitalizing on the CDC's newly defined term and have invented a vaccine for the common cold. You take a vitamin C tablet, crush it, cook it in a spoon and shoot it up.