Hell problem?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Hastings, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    Have you ever taken the time to look it up in the Greek? And are you aware that the Bible says that the unrepentant dead will be in the second resurrection……they will live again. But I might be getting a head of myself because you may not be aware of the second resurrection.
     
  2. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you talking about the second judgement where hell is cast into the lake of fire?
     
  3. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    Nope. Here are some scriptures that mentioned the second resurrection. In John 5, Revelation 20 and Acts 24 the first and second resurrections are mentioned together. But don't assume that just because it says in Acts 24 the unjust, that means they will be condemned, or in John 5 where the word condemnation is used. It's just making a distention between those who will be in the first resurrection from those who will be in the second resurrection. Those who will be in the second resurrection will still be mortal: they will live a normal life, except that they now have their minds open to the truth. They will live in a better world where it will be a lot easier to obey God, because Satan will no longer be on the Earth to deceive people.

    1st & 2nd Rresurrection
    John 5:28,29 – Do not marvel at this, for the day will come when all will hear His voice and come forth – those who have done good to the resurrection of life. And those who have done evil, to the resurrection of *condemnation.

    *Condemnation – is incorrect it should be KRISIS = CRISIS = DECISION -- a judgment will be made about them base on the choices they have made during there life, in the judgement period at the end of that judgement periot… good or bad.

    (*) Crisis:
    Gk krisis, lit., decision, fr. krinein to decide--more at certain] (15c) 1 a: the turning point for better or worse in an acute disease or fever b: a paroxysmal attack of pain, distress, or disordered function c: an emotionally significant event or radical change of status in a person's life <a midlife ~> 2: the decisive moment (as in a literary plot) 3 a: an unstable or crucial time or state of affairs in which a decisive change is impending; esp: one with the distinct possibility of a highly undesirable outcome


    1st & 2nd Rresurrection
    Rev.20:4-5 - And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was committed to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the Word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or it’s images, and not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    1st & 2nd Rresurrection
    Acts 24:15 – I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

    2nd Rresurrection
    Ezek. 37:1-14 - The hand of the Lord came upon me and brought me out in the spirit of the Lord
    and set me down in the midst the valley; and it was full’ of bones. Then He cause me to pass by them all and around, and behold, there very many in the open valley; and indeed they were very dry. And He said a me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” So I answered, “O Lord God you know.”.Again he said to me,” Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the words of the Lord! Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the Lord. So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and suddenly there was a rattling; and the bones came together; bone to bone. Indeed, as I looked, the sinews and the flesh came upon them, and the skin covered them over, but there was no breath in them. Then He said to me, prophesy to the breath, prophesy son of man, and say to the breath, “thus say the Lord God: “Come from the four winds, o breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.”’” So I prophesy as I was commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army. Then He said to me, “Son of man, these house are the hole house of Israel. They indeed say, our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we our selves are cut off! Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold o my people, I will open up your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have open your graves, O my people, and brought you up from your graves. I will put my Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’”
     
  4. kowalskil

    kowalskil New Member

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    You are not answering my question.

    Ludwik Kowalski
    .
    .
     
  5. Nosferax

    Nosferax Banned

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    Yes I did...
     
  6. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This sounds like the Mormon belief in two "resurrections."



    Have you considered that in the context of that story from John, Jesus was talking to Pharisees, and Jesus had not yet died and opened Heaven for the righteous who passed on before Jesus' incarnation, and so were awaiting his sacrifice to be taken to heaven from their place called "the bosom of Abraham?" (note that the Ezekiel passage confirms this--that's what Jesus was referring to happening when He died and opened heaven for the patriarchs of old). I suppose that could be considered a "1st resurrection" but it's already occurred and was for those like Moses who were the unbaptized righteous.


    See Matthew 27:
    [50] And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.
    [51]
    And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split;
    [52] the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
    [53] and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.


    Thje spliting of the veil to the Holy of Holies is symbolic of the opening of heaven to all the dead righteous.

    This happening is referenced in my religion's Apostle's Creed:
    He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.


    Again--I believe this is in reference to Jesus' death and the resurrection of the patriarchs of old.

    It's wrong to take apocalyptic writing too literally. It is a specific genre of writing that was employed a lot in the 1st centuries.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalyptic_literature

    I believe it is indeed literal in a sense--in that there is multiple meanings that point to Divine Truth not yet understood fully, but to think of a thousand year reign as literally 1000 years and specifically a "reign" as in Jesus here on earth sitting on a throne running the governance of earth, that is taking the symbolic nature of apocalyptic writing genre in the wrong sense per its purpose.

    Jesus does reign, and there are those who do not worship and rather follow "the beast." We are right NOW in that "thousand year reign" of Jesus, because Jesus has died and was resurrected and we can have life in him.




    Again--look in context. Paul is referencing the Jewish belief concerning resurrection. Further, there is nothing there suggesting anything about two resurrections of the body--just one, where both the Just and the unjust are judged accordingly. This is referring to the end time when there is the General Judgement--the lake of fire part referred to in Revelation.
     
  7. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    If a Mormon told you that eating fruits is good for you and I agree would that be teaching Mormanism?


    The Bible no where teaches that the saints are in Heaven or is going to Heaven. On the contray, Jesus said it is the Earth we will inherit.....even God Himself the Bible tells us will live on the Earth.

    Revelation 21:3 (ESV)
    3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.

    Matthew 5:5 (ASV)
    5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.


    And where did you get that from? The splitting of veil was simply the fact that access to God was now open.....we don't need the Old Testament priestly system to go before God on our behalf......we can now boldly go before the thrown of grace, unlike it was under the Old Covenant.

    Hebrews 4:16 (ASV)
    16 Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need.

    And the dead righteous are not or not in Heaven.....you will never find a scripture that says the dead saints or the righteous are in Heaven.




    The Bible says the dead in Christ will rise first at Jesus return, but you are claiming that they have already risen.

    1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (NASB77)
    16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
    17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.
    18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

    When Jesus returns it will be known by everyone.......people will see Him.

    Matthew 24:27-28 (ASV)
    27 For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
    28 Wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.



    The Bible says that when Jesus returns He was set up the kingdom of God the Nations will seek God to teach them His ways. And that Nations will not learn war anymore.

    Isaiah 2:1-4 (ASV)
    1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
    2 And it shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
    3 And many peoples shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Jehovah from Jerusalem.
    4 And he will judge between the nations, and will decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


    Isaiah 11:1-9 (ASV)
    1 And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a branch out of his roots shall bear fruit.
    2 And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.
    3 And his delight shall be in the fear of Jehovah; and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither decide after the hearing of his ears;
    4 but with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
    5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his waist, and faithfulness the girdle of his loins.
    6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
    7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
    8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.
    9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.

    This is not the reality now because Jesus is not sitting as King of kings on the Earth. Jesus is not sitting on His thrown.....He is on His Father's thrown in Heaven.

    Jesus said He has overcome and is sitting on His Father's throne.

    Revelation 3:21 (Darby)
    21 He that overcomes, to him will I give to sit with me in my throne; as I also have overcome, and have sat down with my Father in his throne.

    Jesus' thrown will be on the Earth because He is a decendant of king David, and will inherit the throne of His father David. And the saints will sit with Him and rule with Him.

    Isaiah 9:6-7 (HCSB)
    6 For a child will be born for us, a son will be given to us, and the government will be on His shoulders. He will be named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
    7 The dominion will be vast, and its prosperity will never end. He will reign on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish and sustain it with justice and righteousness from now on and forever. The zeal of the Lord of Hosts will accomplish this.

    David was never a king in Heaven.....His rule was on the Earth in Jerusalem. But scripture elsewhere tells us that Jesus rule will eventually include all Nations.....it will fill the Earth it says in Daniel.

    Daniel 2:35 (ASV)
    35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken in pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing-floors; and the wind carried them away, so that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.


    Whomever if anyone is, is teaching you what you are saying does not understand the scriptures.


    Paul was stating what he believed from what is revealed in the Old Testament. He said he had hope in God, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust, and he said they also believe the same. If Paul did not believe it he would not have said he had hope in it.


    You see you believe this because you believe that if a person dies and did not repent that is it for them.....they have no hope according to what you believe. So even when the Bible clearly shows that the unrepentant dead will live again, and not be condemned that bit of revelation would totally and completely over turn your belief, and you are not yet willing to give that up. You have no idea how loving and merciful God is ,even though you might say God is, yet you portray Him as unmerciful but you don't realize it.
     
  8. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So....you're not Mormon? Or, are you Mormon? I don't care either way, it is just concerning when a person doesn't/won't clarify their religious philosophy. It makes me wonder what they are hiding or hiding from--that's why I ask.

    Ummm...even the chapter you quote starts by saying it isn't the same "earth" See verse 1 in Revelation 21. How could you miss that when quoting verse 3?

    Now..I'm not saying God COULDN'T re-make earth into the New Jerusalem, but I don't believe apocalyptic writing is literal--IN FACT, I'm sure it is not intended to be literal. It is a literary genre of writing like poetry or parable are.




    Do you think that must/necessarily mean that the literal earth--the planet--is given to the meek?




    I don't think you are incorrect in that, however, you aren't fully exploring what the tearing of the veil means.



    2Cor.5

    [1] For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
    [2] Here indeed we groan, and long to put on our heavenly dwelling,
    [3] so that by putting it on we may not be found naked.
    [4] For while we are still in this tent, we sigh with anxiety; not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
    [5] He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.


    Jesus HAS already risen! The Heavenly Kingdom exists. Death HAS been defeated.

    I do believe that Christ will come again at the end of time, but exactly how and when that will unfold is a great mystery. We are told not to worry about it--it will take care of itself.

    I don't doubt that.

    It's interesting that you say that we don't need the OT priestly system, and yet rely heavily on OT prophecy for your interpretations. Again--like apocalyptic writing, Prophetic writing is not literal. Apparently, you need some guidance for interpretation of scriptures.

    The "NEW EARTH" (after the old has passed away per Revelation 21) is not THIS same earth. It is the NEW Jerusalem--the Kingdom of God--not this world. This kingdom exists now because to God there is no time--He is, was, and will be right now. So the reality of Jesus' reign over this new kingdom--the New Jerusalem--is now. And time still moves forward here, until the end of time where all of creation will be a new creation.

    Jesus is God.


    Where are you getting this? King David is not Jesus' Father--God the Father is.

    You are building interpretation off from interpretation.

    And another thing--why the variety of Bible interpretations? Where are you getting this from?

    Refer back to Revelation--you sourced Rev. 21--it talks of the throne of the Lamb (Jesus) and of God (the Father) being one and the same throne in the New Jerusalem. --again--AFTER the old has passed away.

    And upon what authority are you interpreting these scriptures?

    2Pet.3

    [16] speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.



    God is Justice. I believe he is Mercy and Justice. You quote Revelation as some source of a new life for unrepentant dead, but you truncate the Chapter--failing to show the justice given to those who chose to reject Jesus:
    Rev.20

    [1] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain.
    [2] And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
    [3] and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.
    [4] Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    [5] The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
    [6] Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.



    Well...for heaven's sake, READ ON.....

    [7] And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison
    [8] and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
    [9] And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,
    [10] and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    [11] Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
    [12] And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
    [13] And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
    [14] Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;
    [15] and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.



    When you twist scripture to make a doctrine of your own--to fulfill some desire of how you perceive God should be--you err greatly, and are led away into false teachings.
     
  9. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    That would be your problem.

    It's not a different Earth, it only appears that way because everything on the surface will be consumed by the fire. There's a scripture that says the wicked will be ash under the feet of the saints....if it was a literal new Earth there would be no ash of the wicked for the saints to be walking on. The Earth abides forever.

    Ecclesiastes 1:4 (NKJV)
    4 One generation passes away, and another generation comes; But the earth abides forever.

    There is nothing wrong with the Earth, only what we do on it......it is sinful human beings that make the Earth a terrible place to live. Once there is no more sin, life on the Earth will be a joy.



    It says more than could......it says He will dwell with man.




    Jesus was not telling a parable. You should know the difference between when Jesus is speaking figurativly and when He is not.




    I am not doing a Bible study on the subject of what the tearing of the veil means......so I don't have the time to get into all the meaning.





    It does not say we will be in Heaven....it only says we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.....in other words, it is now in Heaven. The body we will receive is a body that has been made in Heaven, unlike the body we now have. A car is made in a factory, but it does not mean that the buyer has to go to the factory to buy the car or drive around in the factory or live in the factory.

    But He has not returned as yet. It when He return then the dead in Christ will be resurrected from the dead. The Bible says we will ascend to meet Jesus in the clouds.....that has not happen either because Jesus is still in Heaven.

    1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (ASV)
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
    17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.




    Revelation 1:7 (BBE)
    7 See, he comes with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those by whom he was wounded; and all the tribes of the earth will be sorrowing because of him. Yes, so be it.


    There is a big difference between the priestly system and things that God inspired His prophets to foretell. Anyone that carfully study the scriptures will know this.

    But He is not the Father. It is His Father's throne He is on.




    As a man, Jesus is a descendant of David and Isaiah 9:6-7 clearly shows this.



    The scriptures tell us that though God is one there is a distinction between the Father, the Son and even the Holy Spirit. It was not the Father that died on the cross.....it was Jesus.



    By the authority of the Bible itself.



    You need to look at yourself when you use that scripture.



    I did not say that they would be resurrected to immortality......they will still be mortal. They will live a normal life as we are and then at some point at the end of their life, they enter the kingdom of God....they will inherit immortality as well.
     
  10. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This says it all. Duly noted, Mr. Smith....

    It's too bad you need to feel ashamed that you are a Mormon. --BTW, I can tell that you are indeed Mormon by the way you talk about the Person of Jesus. You needn't hide from your doctrine if you truly believe.
     
  11. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    Whatever you want to believe.....it would not be the first time I have been mislabeled&#8230;&#8230;I can live with it.
     
  12. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Whether you're Mormon or not, you're still hiding. ;)
     
  13. Jstar

    Jstar New Member

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    Hell was created for Satan and his minions...not for humans...however if you turn from God, and follow Satan, you will be cast into hell with them...

    Hell is a real place..its not 'in your mind'...you won't be floating around in a black void forever...you will be burning, without dying..in real time...forever.
     
  14. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    Are you sure you know what Hell is? What if I were to show you from the Bible, that the english word Hell was used by translators to translate three different words that mean different things into the one word Hell?
     
  15. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Geee... that novel idea is akin to taking the words "me", "myself", and "I", and coming to the conclusion that they are referencing and representing my "spiritual being" when they are not attached to other words and usages such as "my arm", "I will", "a part of me".
     
  16. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    The traditional belief in hell is incorrect, not it's existence, but it's nature.

    Hell is a place of toment, not turture. People will not be burning up, writhing in merciless flames for all eternity. The words used to describe hell are metaphorical. The flame, the worm, these signify the torment people in hell will feel, but each one according to their works. (Mt 16:27)

    Though hell isn't a torture champer, it's certainly a miserable place where the love and grace of God is utterly lacking. People will no longer be able to hide from the full magnitude of their choices. They can't drink it away or drug it away. The memory of sins does not fade and is not eased by forgetfulness. There is no solice, nobody who cares, nobody who loves. For all love is authored by God and the occupants of hell are no longer in the presence of God's love.

    It's rotten for people who chose to live apart from the love of God, but for murderers it's worse. Each murder is an unholy magot that never dies. It borrows through flesh mercilessly causing intense pain.

    Most of all, hell is a place where refuge can no longer be sought in lies. The Almighty brings an end to all lies and people are left with the undiluted truth of their wrongful choices. The ability to misappropriate blame no longer exists. People instead are left with the horror of who they were on earth. Their selfishness, greed, and the violence they visited on others are their constant companions in hell.

    It's important to take into account all things in the Bible referring to hell. Jesus uses metaphors that could be understood such as the beating with few stripes or many stripes in accordance with a person's level of disobedience. The fact that the punishments of hell are taylor made advances the notion that we create our own personal hell. But the hell we create on earth is nothing close to the terrible place we create for ourselves in the next life.
     
  17. Jstar

    Jstar New Member

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    Oh Im sure what hell is...and you could show me many translations made by men, but I'll stick with what God says is hell.
     
  18. John1735

    John1735 Banned Past Donor

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    And that is why the premise fails. The views and beliefs people hold about God may and do from time to time change, however God and his word do not.

    In fact Gods word, is the only thing in all of creation that is truly eternal.

    Simply put, God states he has created a place called hell, why he did so, and who it is that will get to reside there.

    Whether you hold a belief in hell, or even in God for that matter, is neither required, or relevant.
     
  19. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are numerous versus in the bible which state that non-believers will be destroyed, not punished in an everlasting torment.

    One being destroyed is an eternel punishment, yet does not require eternal torment.

    Simple reason should establish that eternal torment is unjust and without purpose.

    I as a human could not comprehend condemning anyone(including Hitler) on earth to an everlasting(trillions upon trillions of years) torment. Why would I find it acceptable or just for God to do so.
     
  20. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    I am not talking about different translations.....I could show it to you from any translation of your choosing. The Bible was not written in English.......it’s one of many languages the Bible was translated into. So I am dealing with the Greek and Hebrew words that many translate into Hell, but are talking about three different things.

    And for your information and others: Satan is living as we speak on the Earth. Satan's throne is on the Earth. It’s a side issue that I could show you from the Bible and I thought I would mentioned that.
     
  21. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    Most Christians confuse eternal punishment with eternal punishing. Eternal punishing is not in the Bible. It seems when it comes to the Bible people forget grammar. Eternal punishing means the person continues to live forever being punished. While eternal punishment means they are punished and their life has come to an end and will not be revised.
     
  22. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed. IMO, many christians are cultist using no reason.
     
  23. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    Yes, many have a closed your mind.
     
  24. Ostap Bender

    Ostap Bender Well-Known Member

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    Here is my point of view:

    If you sin than you go to Hell, if not to Paradise.

    http://www.av1611.org/hell.html
     
  25. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    What paradise?
     

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