How many gods are there?

I actually enjoy watching that sometimes, it is kind of funny ..

I like it when he gets one of those "well how about if I come down there and punch your face in. " haha The bald guy is funny,I mean just some of his facial expressions ..

 

I beleive that (one) God caused the universe to begin to exist as per the KCA and other logical arguments which are called cosmological arguments for the existence of God. That is not the only reason I claim that the one God that created the universe (who needs two or more Gods to create a universe? That would be making things unnecessarily complicated, which would violate the principles of Occam's razor. Our brains are temporal instruments do not process supernatural information etc very well, because the realm of God is so far advanced that our primitive brain. Only our soul saves us from being a smart ape with a level of sentience that a chimp has, if that. Anyway the way I chose my religion and the reason why I think it best describes God is another thread but suffice to say, I think the christian religion has far more evidence that validates it as truth than the other religions. With all due respect, atheism, especially hard atheism is the very most irrational, disingenuous to the user and the outside world (or those that reject atheism) unreasonable paradigm invented by man. Its indefensible, and well, nutty in my personal opinion, no wonder its such a minor paradigm !

reva

 

I don't do vids, I think its a lazy mans way of gathering information, not to mention that the information contained in most vids are nearly impossible to verify etc. They are just not very useful for anything except for entertainment. So personally speaking I do not watch them (except for entrainment). I am interested in assisting production of Christian mission videos for people in poverty stricken areas or even indigenous tribal areas. Also they are good vehicles to spread the good word and as an recruitment tool that targets preteens and teenagers, as is music such as christian death metal videos (yes it exists!). However I would not expose preteens to some of the stuff even though it is Christian in nature (only just!) ~ Just some information from the other side ~

I HOPE TO SEE YA ALL IN CHURCH THIS WEEK, EVEN THE BALD GUY! ~

reva

 

Do you know how ignorant* that sounds? What do you need besides a huge dose of common sense to demonstrate how wrong (etc) that concept is? Really the dictionary should be far and away enough evidence to crush your totally completely and beyond stupid argument! Ok, first tell me how you define atheist, then tell me how you define Christan and give sources for both. Here let me give you the common sense rebuttal ;

Atheist ; a·the·ist

a·the·ist [áythiist]
(plural a·the·ists)
n
unbeliever in God or deities: somebody who does not believe in God or deities

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Ok got that MDF? Now lets look up that other word?


Christian ; Chris·tian

Chris·tian [kríschən]
n (plural Chris·tians)
1. believer in Jesus Christ as savior: somebody who believes that Jesus Christ was sent to the world by God to save humanity, and who tries to follow his teachings and example

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Ok, lets just stop right here so we do not get muddled down in a weasel worded word salad attempts to distort the issue with other tactics>?

Now , by the definitions (above) tell me with a straight face how anyone can be an atheist and a Christian at the same time?


I am waiting~

Oh I almost forgot ;ig·no·rant [ígnərənt]
adj
1. lacking knowledge: lacking knowledge and education in general or in a specific subject
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. * ig·no·rant its not an insult its a accurate observation arrived at by your claim. While its a logical fallacy to call on the majority as proof that the statement etc is ignorant in real life its usually a pretty good indicator of truth. Ask a thousand people if its possible to be a Christian and an atheist and you will get a thousand "no, any fool would know it's not possible". Please do not go digging around to find some obscure Latin exaggerates of dictionary terms that was found fossilized in a dino turd somewhere and try to use it to vindicate your claims. Yes that was rev comedy.




reva

 

I am; Right, right and right.

reva

 

RevA:
At this point I have to ask why you bother?

THat particular poster is beyond reason, as is anyone who would take to fundamentally opposite extremes and claim they are the same ...

.... while demindanding someone else prove they are not.

When the concept is so flawed that is requires deliberate contortion to be held? Such a psotion is devoid of rational thought.

So, just curious, why do you think rational thought or rational consequence would effect a conclusion that clearly id devoid of anything rational?

No matter what you say, the atheist-Christian is just going to find some excuse to avoid it or dismiss, even applying fundamentally opposite standrads to different peices of evidnece.

To claim that one is the TRUE follower of Jesus by rejecting God? It is ignorance and nothing more.

When the basis of someone's beliefs is merely to put down others and attack the basis of their faith? Such people are beyond reason.

Why do you engage?

 

That is correct and I haven't claimed anything other. All we have is evidence, and with that evidence we must form our own models of reality. That model of reality includes what we beleive to be true in history. I happen to think that the christian religion is the most accurate of religions in describing the creator of the universe. I beleive Christianity has the most and best evidence to support its claims about God and the how the universe was created. Just as in most nations a person can be convicted of murder just by circumstantial evidence, we can 'prove' Gods existence by the same type of evidence!

So as I said a person can be executed by proving beyond a reasonable doubt with only circumstantial evidence that said person committed the crime! I am claiming that the same process can be used to validate Gods existence. There is far and away more than enough evidence to show that God exists beyond any reasonable doubt!

So what about atheism? Those that defend Atheism can not make such a claim. They have no evidence and furthermore they arbitrarily reject that they must defend their paradigm with any evdiences at all ! They expect those that reject their paradigm to beleive their paraidgm etc on faith alone. What a strange turnaround! So when atheists tell the unbelievers (of atheism) that they can not defend their paradigm, additionally that we must take on faith that their view of reality is correct! In my way of thinking that is intellectually repulsive. It's simply astonishing that they have gotten away with the defense of no defense for so long...

reva

 

To force a capitulation. If an undecided reads his post and sees no rebuttal he may think that MDF is correct. It's that (taken to extremes) which could lead to the next Jim Jones cult leader. Perhaps if Jones were cut down and exposed in his early preachings he would not have led so many poor souls to their death. Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying MDF is anything like Jim Jones etc, its just that when ignorant statements are not challenged they may lead just one innocent down the path of no return. Maybe MDF does not even think about such things and just likes to flame. However I know how dangerous and powerful those type of statements can be! I receive hundreds of E mails and a few tell me that I planted a seed long ago, or defended the faith and that turned them to Jesus and the right path.

I hope that helps.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Eh?

reva

 

Rev, No matter what you do, that particular poster is going to think that he is right.

That particular poster, after finding out I was a Ranger and deciding to 'question' Christians who use violence, we cannot be Christians, with no intent other than to inflict harm on another THROUGH THEIR FAITH ... is dumdstruck that I rejected his RECENT attempted friendship.

How does anyone think they can do that, and then, with no apology, no contrition, as they conctinue t advocate deliberate slams of someone else's faith and peronage, think that this is a basis for mutual respect and friendship?

He is not going to capitualate.

His intent is solely to rile you up - too attack YOU through YOUR FAITH as he did me.

It is going to time, consequence, and experience to shape that one, but trust a former atheist - logic, compassion, any of the better things of humanity, will not sway that one.

He isn't even making a case, merely demanding YOU make one o he can flame you and reject logic.

Seriously, what about a atheist claiming to be Christian is logical? Jesus, God, the New and Old Testament, how could any rational man claim that atheism is compatable with Christianity?

It would be no different you or I claiming we were REAL atheists because we were ACTUALLY Christians.

Come to think of it, that might be a fun expirament? We could begin claiming we had seen the light, praise be to God, and it is JESUS, the true light of atheism!!!!

How long do you think it would take for the atheists on this forum to stampede the mods with reporting?

That particular poster is never going to convince anything but himself. An atheist who claims that he is the TRUE Christian? He nothing more than a tool to the atheists who use him to get at you.

Treat him like a rusty hammer, when you need a screw driver.

 

I appreciate your concern Neutral my friend, but we will play the game and see who wins eh? This isn't my first rodeo, and as per my PM he is helping me if no matter what his agenda is, or isn't. I have emails to prove it! Ha ha ~

reva

 

Are you really calling people in poverty stricken or indigenous tribal areas lazy? And does your interest in assisting production videos as good vehicles for spreading the good word rely on your contention that information contained in videos is nearly impossible to verify?

 

Sheesh let me break my reply down for you brother Neutral;

I was replying to K7 and another member conversing about an apparently anti christian video and suggesting (or not) we should watch it, here is a cut and paste of the reply I was responding to;

So here was my reply point by point;

POINT ONE>>>>I don't do vids, I think its a lazy mans way of gathering information,

POINT TWO>>>> not to mention that the information contained in most vids are nearly impossible to verify etc.


POINT THREE>>>> They are just not very useful for anything except for entertainment. So personally speaking I do not watch them (except for entrainment).


POINT FOUR>>>>>I am interested in assisting production of Christian mission videos for people in poverty stricken areas or even indigenous tribal areas. Also they are good vehicles to spread the good word and as an recruitment tool that targets preteens and teenagers

JUST SAYING OR SEE FINISHING SENTENCE (#5) >>>>, as is music such as christian death metal videos (yes it exists!). However I would not expose preteens to some of the stuff even though it is Christian in nature (only just!) ~(#5) Just some information from the other side ~

Now my reply in a normal form;

Huh? Am I "really calling people in poverty stricken or indigenous tribal areas lazy?" Heck now, I live in a poverty stricken area, etc. I grew up in poverty. And my Christian humanitarian missions provide basic care to disadvantaged people. I meant that in indigenous areas its easier to communicate with vids than the written word. Additionally what I was saying that I personally do not watch vids. I ws saying that members that rely on posting vid links to do their talking for them are lazy. I produce do vids for children as well as write story boards and sc plays. When I said that information contained in adult vids are impossible to verify I meant that there are thousands of soundbytes in vids the vast majority are not able to be validated if one wanted to prove a claim made in a video was valid.

(*)(*)(*)(*)! Ha ha I hope that helped! Hey jump on MDF he is easier than I am. Chaos is my comfort zone....

reva

 

As far as restoring credibility? Nah.

 

Mkay. Prove it.

Until you can, you're wrong.

 

For the same reason we engage you: To teach you. The difference is, we can substantiate our position.

 

That's an adorable amount of words for not wanting to watch a video.

Here's the meat of it: The old testament talks about many other gods, even the christian god being a part of a communion of gods.

 

Saying an argument is logical doesn't make it so, especially with KCA. Until KCA can offer up an explaination as to why God can be eternal but the universe can't, it is illogical.

Do you have any evidence at all to even suggest what you are saying might be true?

No? Just checkin.

Can you offer any evidence that a soul exists?

I have never seen any evidence that suggests christianity (or any other religion) is based on reality.

Yes, but you can't tell us why. You just say it is. It is another assumption that you just believe for no reason. Your argument is completely illogical once you stop considering those assumptions as factual (since they are NOT factual).

 

I call this "hitting people when they're down."

 

I call it "food for faith". It just doesn't work.

 

Zero gods exist, even if the Christian bible does mention several.

 

I wasn’t going to reply to your post, but seeing that no one else noticed the 'awfulness' of it, the mistakes and the gross falsehoods contain therein, I feel I must to defend the integrity of this thread by correcting your misconceptions etc. The KCA is acually a logical syllogism wrapped in deductive logic and valid concepts, therefore the KCA is a logical argument. The KCA constructs a logical syllogism from its first few premisis. Then it goes on to use deductive and other valid methods. The use of those forms of logic and the conclusion of the argument show the KCA to be a logically valid cosmological argument. BTW it’s taught nearly on every college campus that offers a philosophy course. I don’t make this stuff up. You should thank me for saving you future embarrassment.

NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Kalam cosmological argument
In summary, the Kalam Cosmological Argument rests on the premise that the ....
usually the categorical syllogism, is a kind of logical argument in which one
...
www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Kalam-cosmological-argument -

Now, you would have a better (but still wrong) case if you would have said that the KCA in its entirety is not rational. I think you are confusing rationality with logical.

Yes of course. The KCA for one and the truth of Occams razor ;
Causal Agencies, Occam's Razor, and the Cosmological Argument ...
Jun 27, 2011 ... Perhaps we don't need many gods to explain complex various events. ... Is the simplest explanation of all there is one uncaused causal agent ...
maxandrews.wordpress.com/.../causal-agencies-occams-razor-and-the-cosmological-argument/

Yes indeed!

You can stop checkin’ now…

Yes indeed; The mind brain question is a valid scientific study. Duality is not by any means proven or not proven. If however the mind can exist without the brain that is very good evidence for the soul because conscious exists without any support of a scientific method, here are some links to validate my claims;

Scientific Evidence Grows that Mind and Brain Are ... - UK Apologetics
Well Dualism stated that while brain is a physical component, the mind itself
... that people's "intelligence" (a faculty of the mind or soul) could not be
wholly ... Whatever I can conceive clearly and distinctly, God can so create.
... The University of Southampton, England, has also conducted some research
which ...
www.ukapologetics.net/07/mindandbody.htm -

Dualism is the concept that our mind is more than just our brain. ... physical
brain along with a separate non-physical mind, spirit, or soul. ... If the
source is the God of the Bible, the concept of dualism is consistent with the
Bible. ... Dualism – Rational and scientific support. A British study published
by ...
www.allaboutphilosophy.org/dualism.htm -

Lastly; Wilder Penfield, once an atheist and who once rejected dualism recanted late in his career after a series of experiments demonstrated that the mind and brain may very well be separate! the father of modern neurosurgery, encountered concrete evidence that the brain and mind are actually distinct from each other, although they clearly interact.

"Penfield would stimulate electrically the proper motor cortex of conscious patients and challenge them to keep one hand from moving when the current was applied. The patient would seize this hand with the other hand and struggle to hold it still. This one hand under the control of the electrical current and the other hand under the control of the patient's mind fought against each other. Penfield risked the explanation that the patient had not only a physical brain that was stimulated to action but also a nonphysical reality that interacted with the brain."
In other words, Penfield ended up agreeing with the assertion that human beings are both body and spirit.

Yes I love that word.. SPIRIT. So I feel there is ample evidence for a soul, our self awareness that exists independent of our brain and beyond the explanation of science.

With all due respect you haven’t looked very hard have you? There are discoveries nearly every week in archeology that proves the stories in the bible as true or validates them in other ways. Another item is Bible prophesy coming true. Just have a look at the news. Or history such as Israel becoming a nation overnight just as prophesied. (She also fulfilled many more when and how she became a nation).

Not true they are very factual. I for one post verification and evidence, you don't hoping everyone will rely on your accusations and assumptions. I have already shown you are quite lacking in some of the subjects you criticize. Additionally and worse, you have your own unassailable baseless assumptions and do not read my posts or research material of those that have dissenting opinions (from the misconceptions you retain regarding to Christianity and theism/theology) Those scholars and genius level theists I mention (Such as Kurt Gödel) that are religious could wake you up from that self imposed coma of denial, instead you cling to the often* disingenuous irrational atheism as if it was a straw and you were drowning in the facts of theology ….* glug-a- gug* eh?

* Its my opinion that atheism becomes disingenuous and irrational when it refuses to defend its paradigm by claiming it’s not a belief but rather a philosophical state.

reva

 

Prove it? Both that God doesn't exist, and that the Christian bible mentions several Gods~

reva

 

You seem to be suffering from the delusion created by a lack of comprehension of the complete definitions of terms and their relation to one another.

Exist;
real;
reality;
is;
be; etc.

 

Your paper thin evidence is proof of nothing. It is weak evidence that will not hold up to the smallest amount of scientific scrutiny.

Believe what you want to, I don't care if your not hurting anyone because of it. I can offer you the logic, but I can't make you understand it when you don't want to.

 

Where is there a law written which stipulates that religious beliefs, concepts, tenets, etc., have a burden of providing 'scientific PROOF'?

Why would a Theist desire to learn your system of logic when that system of logic is in opposition to the system of logic/philosophy utilized by Theists? That would be a counterproductive endeavor for the Theist.