How to best deal with North Korea

A few minutes ago, I heard, on the news, three proposals as to how to deal with North Korea, short of a full-fledged war.

In ascending order of aggression, they are as follows:

(1) Announce that any other country may have economic dealings--any economic dealings--with North Korea, or with the United States; but that it is quite impossible to deal with both--and enforce that, stringently.

This, or course, would doubtless entail our cutting all economic ties with China--which would leave some bureaucrats almost apoplectic--but it would certainly be okay with me.

(2) Shoot down any tested North Korean missile during its ascent stage.

(3) Put increased pressure upon China to rein in its client state, by announcing that we intend to sell nuclear missiles to Japan--China's arch-enemy--unless China stops the DPRK in its tracks. And truly mean it.

Personally, I would be fine with any of these...

 

Cut links with China and America has no lenders. Austerity kicks in the next day. Sequesters.

Shoot down an NK missile. America doesn't have the ability to do this outside of test conditions. If at all.

Japan doesn't want nuclear weapons or have any self interest in your wars.


Here is option 4. Ignore them.

Option 5. surrender.

Option 6 Withdraw from Korea.



I think you will choose option 4. Ignore them

 

You would be okay with crippling economic depression when suddenly no supply exists for millions of goods demanded in the US and the costs of those goods skyrocket?

 

Pressuring certain Chinese banks that launder money for the N. Koreans is the first step. We could keep upping the stakes until the Chinese government does something to reign in Pyonyang.

It could all the way up to installing nuclear missiles in Taiwan if requested.

 

And this is where the Left wants to go with this. Obama got elected saying he would open lines of communication with NK! He lied. Spurned advances from NK to talk, put on sanctions and millions died from hunger, entered into his strategy of " strategic patience" 8 years of it.. Meanwhile NK enters a technology break through period and is a hairs breadth away from nuke tipped ICBMs... Now Trump gets left holding the ball.

That's the lefts answer. Just ignore them. Also correction. It's not a them. It's a him. A him with zero checks or balances of any kind of nuclear launch protocol. KJU says launch? It's a launch.

Unacceptable.

We are going to blow KJU straight to hell.

Only question is how many NKs he's going to take with him. So tired of people crying about SK. They will be fine. We will hit NK so hard so fast that by the time he even figures out WHO hit him from where? It'll be over.

 

There are other markets for us. The Chinese would just sell to themselves. Hurts both but likely us more. Certainly short to intermediate term shortages.

 

How best to deal with NK?
Same as Iran, Saudi Arabia, and just about everyone except the Afghans.

"Give" the younger adults Levis, rock & roll music.
Make them want more and more of what is the West.
I would add Hostess Twinkies but, that's just me.

Moi

r > g

​

 

1. Answered above to another poster
2. Yes we can shoot down some. Maybe enough specials. But not if there are mass firings of ICBMs some of which are special.
3. I agree. Japan can't have nukes at least anytime soon. They'd have to change their constitution and culture.
4. Can't ignore them anymore. We've tried that. You can't let a mad mad play with matches.
5. Keep your day job.
6. If Japan would take a more active role then ok. They aren't.

 

The key to a peaceful solution is China. If we are to get NK to give up its nuclear program without war, China must act, and it must act decisively.

 

They aren't moving and doesn't appear they will be.

 

Uncle Ferd says bomb `em to smithereens.

 

I think what the Chinese are doing or what they will do is an open question. They are not an open government given to public pronouncements like we are. I suspect that the matter is being quietly discussed at the highest levels of the Chinese government. We in the U.S. are used to public discussion and fairly swift action. I think the Chinese are not. I cannot predict if they will or they won't, but if they do something, it will probably not be on the time table that we are accustomed to. Time will tell.

 

I think it's as much about China than North Korea, the Chinese have been flexing their muscles in the east China Sea, South China Sea and extending heavy vehicle traffic in sensitive areas near India's border. NK an excuse to deploy your navy in the SCS and ECS

So NK is not the only problem to solve and may even be more convenient unsolved for now.

 

It's not the only problem, but it's definitely the most pressing problem. American leadership really, really doesn't want consistent North Korean capability of hitting the American mainland. They don't care all that much about border skirmishes in India, even islands in the South China Sea. The only American concern in the South China sea is to make sure the Chinese don't have a free hand, and to reassure our allies that we aren't going to abandon them. I really don't think that American-Chinese relations will every get that bad, because I think that both the Americans and Chinese are about to go into an extended inward-looking phase. The cost-benefit analysis precludes harsh words, it's hard to imagine missiles flying.

 

I disagree, if the US is only here for NK why do they keep pushing China, flying over their militarised Islands, releasing statements about freedom of navigation and China is giving them reason to be concerned even in the East China Sea. Without the US navy China will claim all the islands currently under dispute.

644 Chinese aircraft were intercepted in 2015/2016 over Senkaku islands in ECE
and more recently
Drone joins four Chinese ships in latest Senkaku intrusion

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/05/18/national/drone-joins-four-chinese-ships-latest-senkaku-intrusion/#.WVyCrNOGORs

 

China's Xi Jinping and president Putin are on the case now, and I think that between them they'll crack it. Let's wait and see how they get on?

 

Oh, it's NK's turn this week to play boogieman for the most violent gimps on the planet?

I thought it was still Putin this week.

 

North Korea should be treated as a terrorist group and the US needs to designate it as a State Sponsor of Terrorism once again. All North Korean embassies in the West should be shut down with North Korean diplomats deported.

It is long past time for Washington to do the right thing and belatedly acknowledge that North Korea’s repeated deadly acts legally constitute terrorist acts and justify returning the regime to the State Sponsors of Terrorism List. Pyongyang’s brazen assassination of Kim Jong-nam using a weapon of mass destruction in a crowded airport filled with civilians should be a wake-up call as to Kim Jong-un’s true nature.

http://www.heritage.org/terrorism/report/north-korea-should-be-put-back-the-terrorist-list

 

A diplomatic solution is desirable if at all possible.

 

I keep hearing covert resources which I hear, right or wrong, as assassination. I still think an overwhelming attack on the North is a possibility. I thought it was going to happen late last month but I see Trump and SecState trying to get China to act. And they are doing more to punish China and NK sanction wise. I don't see us doing nothing.

 

I think an overwhelming attack on the North, ends your treaty with the South. Even before it is launched.
It will also end you treaty with Japan and Taiwan. And indeed pretty much no one will touch an American mutual defence pact with a barge pole if you prove willing to sacrifice your allies capital city and millions of their lives in their "defence" When they aren't even being invaded.

That scenario ends with you out of the Pacific in the next ten years, and likely everywhere else too.

Limited strikes on nuclear or missile facilities I could imagine. Assassination attempts haven't been having much luck for the last 70 years.
Cf the guy who came back in a coma. Yanks are easy to spot in North Korea.
A decapitation strike with a missile is a better bet. But targeting anything in North Korea is going to be extremely hard without men on the ground.

You've been doing nothing but threaten for 70 years. I see no reason for this to change now. Less than ever in fact now that they have a nuclear deterrent.

You've tried sanctions. You've tried bribes. You've tried getting international embargoes. You've tried diplomacy. You've tried total war.

It's really beyond your power to control and you might as well face up to it.

 

Perhaps you should read Baff's posts before you use the "left" word as an attempt at an insult. As for your SK will be fine, are you mad! Any attack will result in return missiles as it is impossible to target all NK missiles and one of those missiles could be nuclear. All Trump's rhetoric and where has that got him - Trump has just continued the same foreign policy that Obama had to follow but just shouted louder.

I'm not attacking you as a poster, just your post - I acknowledge that you are one of the more subjective posters on this forum and not partizan

 

Neither Japan or Taiwan will wig out over a large scale attack. Japan is already in the middle of it. They want a nuclear NK less than we do and we aren't going to tolerate it.

The question is SK now with a new administration. Not sure he's going to come around but they don't have much to say about it other than kicking us out. It's easier to project power with carriers and subs now than during the Korean War. We don't have to harbour troops there although SK likely doesn't really want them gone. The people maybe but not the government. An attack on SK by NK is an attack on the US. That is not likely if they ask us to leave.

We have less to fear from China now than 50 years ago even 20. So I'm not worried about China getting in the middle of it. They do need time to amass more troops on the border to keep refugees out of China.

The problem is the casualties from an attack. There's no way to avoid them in my lay eyes although they can be mitigated by and large. The problem then is it will cost us a huge amount in cruise missile costs. The costs and loss of them weakens us. Artillery shells are cheaper but they won't get enough. Neither will overhead bombing. Even if you get much of them they are going to rocket and bomb the heck out of Seoul. And I think they might be able to fire off some Scuds etc. If they can deliver one special then that changes the entire game. And that I don't know. I don't know if we know if they can do that. That was why we and they needed those THAAD placed.

NK is not China remotely allowing them nukes. It's not India. It's not even Pakistan or Iran now. This guy is nuts and that regime must never be allowed to have nukes.

 

In a globalized economic world to cut off economic ties with China is a suicide reaction for the US economy and the black Friday of 1929 is only fart in comparison to what then will happen!

As far as UN resolution forbids these tests and so NK ignores it = being a "crime" ... seriously: Did NK hurt any sovereignty of an neighbor country with it ... means, does the missile crash in their territory area? No.

So even the UN resolution can maybe taken as reason to shot down any of this un-allowed started and testes missiles of NK, it is at least an act of war by definition and so it should be better done a specific resolution about.

Japan does not want a nuclear arsenal and it is forbidden by own constitution to have and their people won't have this in clear majority. So you will find no government of Japan saying "Yes, give me!"
Don't forget that they are the only country who was ever bombed with nuclear weapons in war and this is not yet forgotten by them!

And to make pressure on China is a problem, because the US has still not understood that China is a world power with its own global interests and its own sphere of interest in Asia ... as the USA has in the world and at home in Central-and South America!
China is also more as strong enough to show the USA the middle finger for any ... in Chinese eyes ... impudent demands.

You got the news about the Chinese proposals towards the US to get issue solved?

 

Ah no, my Left reference was intended, the Lefts action plan everywhere not just here. Media, analysts etc.. Is now that they can't deny NKs capabilities exist now nuclear ICBM wise? .. And because all the options suck ( I'll admit that) the Left is quickly doing the only safe thing to do and that's stick their heads in the sand.

Well it won't work. It's not safe. We aren't talking about a country. We are talking about a very spoiled child with a literal God complex. We will have to take action.

As to my lack of education on this subject. I am very educated on not just NKs substantial military apparatus but also how they live. They have a caste of elites who run the country under KJU. Yes I understand that everyone is scared of the artillery near the DMZ. But we still must act.

Here's what I think we will do because of NKs one huge weakness. No one does anything without KJU saying so. Not one bullet gets fired. He's too scared to relinquish any responsibility.

1. We will start moving more assets to the region. We could go now but why not be careful. Overkill might be needed. It will prevent loss of life.

2. We will go for KJU with our B2 bombers. In a big way. We've already tested our newest bunker buster bomb in Afghan. Well my guess is we'd drop about 5. Then.. Simultaneously we will cyber attack and electronically jam their communications hard. Like in Iraq but times 10. A blanket of silence will be put over the DMZ. Our side of the DMZ will not fire unless NK fires first. NK will not. They'll freeze because no one told them to fire nor can they. Nor will they.

Then we WAIT and if NK doesn't fire we start dropping pamphlets. Explaining etc etc.

3. This is if 2. fails. That means we missed KJU or their artillery starts to fire and then we just overwhelm their border assets from our side of the DMZ.. Sea.. And air.

Thats what I bet the Pentagon is telling President Trump. Why not try and have less loss of life first? Logical and doable.