Israel smears Europe as “fostering hate and racist trends”

There cannot be a middle ground or compromise with something like that. Either it is permitted or it is not. There is no half way point. This is logical. And as I've said, what you call "religious freedoms" should not ace the freedom of a child not to be mutilated.

 

No wonder you go off topic so often, it is about Israel and the belief that it is smearing Europe, not the Muslim practice of circumcision. That I believe is being covered ad nausea on another thread.

 

Israel is a country as stated in your article...

"Israel’s population registry lists a slew of “nationalities” and ethnicities, among them Jew, Arab, Druse and more. But one word is conspicuously absent from the list: Israeli.

Residents cannot identify themselves as Israelis in the national registry because the move could have far-reaching consequences for the country’s Jewish character, the Israeli Supreme Court wrote in documents obtained Thursday.

The ruling was a response to a demand by 21 Israelis, most of whom are officially registered as Jews, that the court decide whether they can be listed as Israeli in the registry. The group had argued that without a secular Israeli identity, Israeli policies will favor Jews and discriminate against minorities.

In its 26-page ruling, the court explained that doing so would have “weighty implications” on the state of Israel and could pose a danger to Israel’s founding principle: to be a Jewish state for the Jewish people.

The decision touches on a central debate in Israel, which considers itself both Jewish and democratic yet has struggled to balance both. The country has not officially recognized an Israeli nationality.

National and ethnic loyalties are often layered in Israel, a country founded on the heels of the British colonial mandate and initially populated by Jewish immigrants along with a small indigenous Jewish population and a larger Arab community.

There are Jews and Arabs. But the Jewish majority distinguishes itself between those from eastern Europe and those whose families originated in Arab countries. These communities are further divided based on the country, or even the village, their ancestors came from.

The 20 percent Arab minority also has Israeli citizenship, and many identify themselves as either Christian or Muslim. Israel is also home to a smattering of other minorities.

The national population registry lists a person’s religion and nationality or ethnicity, among other details. Any Jew, no matter what his country of origin, is listed as a Jew. Arabs are marked as such and other minorities, such as Druse, are listed by their ethnicity.

Judaism plays a central role in Israel. Religious holidays are also national holidays, and religious authorities oversee many ceremonies, such as weddings and funerals. Yet since Israel’s establishment in 1948, a distinct Israeli nationality has emerged, including foods, music and culture, and for most Jews, compulsory military service. While roughly half of Israel’s Jewish population define themselves first and foremost as Jewish, 41 percent of Israelis identify themselves as Israeli, according to the Israel Democracy Institute, a think-tank.

In the Supreme Court case, the 21 petitioners argued that Israel is not democratic because it is Jewish. They say that the country’s Arab minority faces discrimination because certain policies favor Jews and that a shared Israeli nationality could bring an end to such prejudice and unite all of Israel’s citizens.

“The Jewish identity is anti-democratic,” said Uzzi Ornan, the main petitioner who runs “I am Israeli,” a small organization devoted to having the Israeli nationality officially recognized.

“With an Israeli identity, we can be secure in our democracy, secure in equality between all citizens,” said Ornan, a 90-year-old professor of computational linguistics at the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology in Haifa.

Israeli Arabs have long contended that, despite their citizenship, they are victims of official discrimination, with their communities receiving fewer resources than Jewish towns. While some Arabs have made strides in recent years in entering the Israeli mainstream, they are on average poorer and less educated than their Jewish counterparts.

The court’s deliberation focused mainly on how an officially recognized Israeli identity could pose a threat to Israel’s founding ideals and cause disunity. The court said it was not casting doubt on the existence of an Israeli nation.

Anita Shapira, a professor emeritus of Jewish history at Tel Aviv University, said that Judaism and Jewish nationalism go hand in hand and that if nationalism develops into an Israeli one, the Jewish essence will be lost. She also said it could estrange Jews from other countries whose connection to Israel is through religion.

“The attempt to claim that there is a Jewish nationality in the state of Israel that is separate from the Jewish religion is something very revolutionary,” she said.

Ornan also appealed to Israel’s interior minister in 2000 and took the matter to court in 2003 in a failed attempt to identify as Israeli. He vowed to continue his campaign.

Others have also tried to tackle the population registry. The late Israeli author Yoram Kaniuk persuaded a court in 2011 to have him listed as being “without religion,” though his ethnicity remained “Jewish.” Secularists considered the change a coup."

Of course the Arab refusal to take 181 and use it to form their own nation in 1948 cannot be refuted as it is an historical fact.

 

so?
http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/ar...israeli-nationality-reinforces-discrimination

What is your Nationality? Mine is Scottish/British the same as my citizenship. There is no Israeli Nationality. Can you not understand that a country which is in favour of people of only one ethnicity does not treat all fairly. Look to Germany in the 30's if you want to see a country where citizenship and Nationality were not the same.

As I said it is optimistic in that 41% of Israeli's want Israeli Nationality as they want to live in an egalitarian, democratic state. That is hopeful though I suspect time is running out. Perhaps another 10% will wake up quickly.

Regarding your belief that that the Palestinian elite's refusal to accept an unfair resolution on behalf of the Palestinians was excuse for Zionist ethnic cleansing from their ancestral homeland, like I said it is such an old tired excuse it is not worth replying to but if you insist

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/releases/2006/january/january1/palestine.htm

and

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/26/british-secret-documents-palestine-partition



If you believe that your position is so good you could at least try being honest about it. There is never any possibility in moving on if you just continue to say the long corrected untrue propaganda. The two state solution was not even ratified by the UN. The Zionists themsleves never had any intention on going by the two state solution. There intention was always to accept that but go for more.

http://www.1948.org.uk/plan-dalet-and-the-nakba/

The British well knew about this. Hell they even were involved in creating an understanding within Jordan and Israel that Jordan would take the West Bank but go no further into Israel. Jordan was the one decent army the Arabs had. The intention from the very beginning, including the intention of the Brits was that there would be no Palestinian state. Makes your excuse quite laughable.

 

Yes, that is the crucial point.

The official honouring of this hater proved that he is not an extremist that does not have a lot of followers, his opinions are mainstream.

BTW, this hater officially told that a Jew cannot desecrate Sabbath in order to save the life of a non-Jews.

The prominent Jewish professor Israel Shahak described in his book "Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand years" an incident when an orthodox Jews refused to call the doctor to save the life of a non-Jew.

What was the reaction of Jews? Well, they said that Shahak was a liar, that he invented this incident, because Judaism allegedly does not prohibit the desecration of Sabbath, if the life of a Goyim is in danger.

Moses Maimonides explicitly prohibits to save the life of a Goyim on Sabbath, if the Jews can get away with the death of the Goyim.
But if the Jewish community will face persecution because of the death of some important non-Jew, then it is permitted to save his life.

I had recently a discussion abut this issue in another forum, and my Jewish opponent told me, that Ovadia Yosef is jut an significant extremist without any influence on the opinions of most Israelis.

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=152985&start=20

http://politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=146735&start=320

But now nobody can say any more, that this rabbi was an insignificant person.

Well, they share the opinion of this hater, that is why they honour and praise him.
They call him the "greatest expert in Jewish law"!

So when "this great expert in Jewish law" says that non-Jews are as valuable, as domestic animals that have to serve their "Jews masters", or that a Jew cannot desecrate Sabbath to save the life of a non-Jew, then this is the established opinion in Israel.

They cannot eat their cake and have it, too.

Yes, of course.

If somebody controls the public discourse via the ownership and control of the big media, then he can do almost anything he wants.

And if you expose their racism, they will just call you an Anti-Semite/Racist/Nazi and the discussion will eventually be diverted to the Holocaust and the nearly successfully attempt of the "wicked and irrational Goyim" to kill all the Jews in the entire world.

This question cannot be discussed due to the soviet-style laws of many EU-countries, that call themselves "free countries".

That is why any discussion about the Jewish racists and haters is usually diverted to the Holocaust and the gas chambers.

 

See there is the fantasy right there ,No such thing as the "Jewish community " ,the people you refer to are Citizens of Their respective Nations .

IE. American or British Nationals.

Lesson of History ,it was Hitler's and Gobbles and Himmler's ,creation of a "Jewish Community" ,remember the" Star of David Community Identification" symbol ,that was the Necessary mechanism for the Holocaust .

Pre-requisite in creating a target for their foul Racist Genocide, in Germany and in Europe.

The Zionists collaborated in carrying out the demands of the Nazi Regime to the Letter ,Fascist Birds of a Feather Flocked together .

Now ,What is this Mythical "Jewish Community " ,could you name those that see themselves as Jewish as National Identity ,for they are falling into the Fascist Trap again?

P.s If one is born in Israel ,one is a Israeli not a Jewish Citizen !

Even though I would see Palestinian as a alternate Citizen Identity ,the fact of the matter is Religious affiliation ,national Identity DOES NOT MAKE!

Same rubbish that the "Muslim Community " advance ,What they call the "Muslim World " ,or "Muslim Nation " can not exist ,eg ,you can practice Islamic Religion in Iran ,but you do it as a Iranian!

No matter how the Government may describe itself .

As far as the Muslim World is concerned ,we do not live in the 12th Century anymore .And anyway ,the Arab Nation carved up by European and US Imperialism ,setting one Arab people against another.

 

Yes ,putting aside the question of the "Brand name " ,we are seeing arranged marriage rear its Backward Putrid Head ,in Australia .

Something that was criminal now being accepted ,so as not to offend the Backward primitive thinkers ,of the "Community " type.
This foul US Liberalist crap ,is like a virus infecting life ,US Imperialism in Ideological form .

Technically its Communalism ,as the Break up of the Nation as the People ,into smaller and smaller groupings and Communities of Stupidity !

We Class Conscious Workers ,are not fooled ,as this Middle class Community vomit of the "Identity Politics", TYPE vomits around the World .

The foulest and newest excrescence of this "Multi-Cultural " Filth,is the LGBT ,advocates for Gay and Lesbian Identity ,in Australia they seek recognition in anti-Discrimination legislation ,for the First time ,a Political Lobby group will gain protection from criticism ,on pain of Criminal proceedings.
ANTI-DEMOCRACY if ever there was.
Got to hate this Petty-Bourgeois Neo- Fascist Filth!

I was talking to a "Gay activist" just the other day ,as they seek ,get this ,Affirmative Action Quota's in the Australian Labour Party ,demanding set places in the Federal Shadow Cabinet , I asked ,Him why ?

He answered ,because "We are under represented ,like Women " ,I replied "All 50 of you!" ,he ran away and dobbed me into the Gay and Lesbian Police Force of NSW as a "homophobe", and they wonder why the Working Class hate them!

PS ,I am a Uni-Culturalist =Socialist!

That's One unified Human Culture !

 

Actually you're wrong.

That is why there has been such a stink in parts of London and Manchester - because this "community" are trying to create lots of little Israel's, based along religious lines, augmented by a physical presence.

Example;


Controversial eruv given go-ahead by local authorities



Local councillors in Harrow and Hertsmere in Hertfordshire have approved plans to erect a Jewish aerial boundary spanning the two neighbouring boroughs.

The application for the eruv, submitted on behalf of Bushey United Synagogue, has provoked anger from local residents who have complained of a lack of consultation between the orthodox Jewish community and wider Bushey population.

The symbolic boundary, consisting of poles connected by wire to form 'gateways', will turn Bushey into an area where strict Sabbath rules are relaxed for orthodox Jews, such as carrying or transporting items like wheelchairs, pushchairs and handkerchiefs.

The funding for the implementation and monitoring of an eruv will be covered by the United Synagogue.

Local residents opposing the plans argued that the poles and attendant wires could have a detrimental impact on the environment and character of the conservation area.

Other objections concerning the promotion of social exclusion and the imposition of religion on the public space fell outside the realm of planning consideration.

John Dowdle, Chair of Watford Area Humanists and a critic of the Bushey eruv, said: "An eruv enforces a religious identity on all others living within the religious boundary, whether they share those beliefs or not. I have serious concerns about the detrimental impact this could have on social cohesion.

"In Israel, people driving cars on Shabbat (Saturday) are subjected to stone throwing by ultra-orthodox religionists. Are we opening the way for this kind of behaviour in Britain?"


Concern has also been expressed about the potential public liability insurance costs involved. The United Synagogue pays insurance but it is unclear whether the local council might be liable should the United Synagogue cease to pay it.

Eruvin are a relatively new phenomenon in the Britain. The first was created in 2003 and created a religious boundary covering 6.5 square miles around parts of Hendon, Golders Green and Hampstead in North London.

Additional eruvin have since been erected in in Edgware, Elstree/Borehamwood and Stanmore. There are also planned eruvin in Whitefield, Greater Manchester, and Woodside Park in London.

Reform and secular Jews generally disapprove of eruvs, rejecting the concept of an eruv as a valid interpretation of Jewish law.


http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2013/09/controversial-eruv-given-go-ahead-by-local-authorities

 

Oh dear ,and then you ask intelligent ,scientifically advanced thinking people ,not to hurt your Backward primitive religious feelings ,Shame ,Shame ,Shame if our friend is emotionally affected by a medical procedure that Mutilated his Body ,then show Compassion and empathy,not ridicule ,or EXPECT NONE IN RETURN ,Primative , thunker believer in God delusion.

Israel is not a real historically formed nation, its what we Political scientists describe as a "Pseudo-nation",based on genocide and constant War!

Peace in Israel =Palestine!

The only solution Revolution!

And the unification of all the Arab peoples United Socialist States of the Middle -East !

The tolerance of Democratic thought to Religious crap ,is starting to wear very thin

 

Oh the decay and breakup of democratic norms is well advanced ,if these idiots want to live under the Primitive form of social Organisation ,Religious, then hey show them the door .

And as they go off to their Utopian Wonderland ,Israel ,wave them a Happy goodbye.
How dare they ,spit on the Traditions of the British People and their national Identity ,which as Limited as it is ,stands Infinity higher then the Social organisational forms of the Early Bronze age.

Come to think of it ,Britain,has many Bronze age settlement sites ,perhaps ,they should be moved onto the Moors of Yorkshire to get in touch with the crap from the Bronze age they propose .Cut off the electricity ,no services ,no hospitals ,No roads ,Then they can wear their funny hats all day every day and prey to a Non existent God!

Of course the government of Austerity promotes this rubbish ,as they tear up the Nation as the People of Brittan.

Free tickets to Israel is fair, but of course they will not go ,as all religious fools are Cowards.

This crap should be bought down by the people ,Enclaves are NOT on ,and fascistic in Content!

Same crap ,here, different label ,as the Australian Governments on a state level ,are entertaining ,limited Sharia law ,for the "Muslim Community", no thanks Muslims are primitive in their social organisation, inferior to the Modern Nation ,in Law and custom.

Multi-Cultureless, is the Path to fascism as it also denies the existence of Class based society ,we become ,this Stupid Identity or that ,personally I like Class War against the common enemy the Rich and their government.

PS ,I have No Identity other then Australian Working Class, as part of the, International Working Class ,does me just fine !

 

As strange as it may sound, the more disconnected the political class come from the body of working class, esp the young, the better it is.

The less they listen, the better it is. The further they push, the better it is. This goes for all their protected and favoured people, they best make hay while the sun shines, because as sure as night follows day, they will not be making hay forever. It is inevitable that, sooner or later, people are going to tire of being pushed around and pushed aside, while a political class ignore any reasonable efforts to engage with them on issues of importance. I went into my thoughts on this a bit more here -

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=328361

 

It has to end up being a normal nation but at least they are light years ahead of their neighbors.

Not an excuse but the truth. They never intended on sharing no matter what division was presented hence the immediate call for invasion rather than negotiation.

Yet the Arabs never once wanted to negotiate but rather invaded. Seems they felt their position was rather strong.

Correct which is why I say that Israel based their nationhood on this document and, at present are recognized by over 160 nation members of the UN.

You have no solid proof of this however, we do know that the Palestinians had no intention of allowing for a Jewish state.

Actually your inference that the Palestinians were just poor victims rather than all out belligerents is laughable. In fact, it all started in Tel Hai when they wanted to rid themselves of their Jews. It was then folowed by the riots which were Arab sprung and then it spiraled from there. The fact that the Arabs never wanted to negotiate but rather to build their Islamic racist state over all of Palestine is no secret - well, to most anyhow.

 

IIRC for the first time, I think you have actually changed my mind on this issue.

It really is a relic of both ancient pre-emptive health/hygiene and male sexual desensitization.

(by way of context, neither I nor my son nor my grandsons are snipped, despite it still being the dominant practice in north america)

 

Well that is gracious of you to say. The bottom line is this. We cannot protect things merely on the basis that they have been done by a % of people for a long time. After all, many other such things have been cast aside as society has become more civilised. It's obvious that each time such a thing is challenge there are naturally going to be those that resist the change. I get that. But even then, this is no basis to let what is fundamentally wrong go on. There are likely those that would robustly not want female GM to change. They would make all the same arguments. But the law would not allow you and I to start a "religion" and bolt some nutty and sadistic practice onto it which impacted on kids. We would go to prison and we would deserve it.

It bugs me that France have prosecuted 100 or so people for FGM and that the UK have prosecuted none. This show a cowardice on the part of our Gov's to do justice. If Muslims or Jews want to engage in such practices in their own lands, I have less issue with that. I still would not like that it goes on, but since it is then outwith my zone, I cannot tell them what to do. But if they want to live here then I'm afraid that the day will have to come when these practices do not ace law or do not ace the rights of the minor. If they can accept that and not do it(while still practising their religion), then fine. If they are not content with that, and feel they must carry out this practice, fine as well, just don't do it here or be here. That is all I ask.

Out of interest, I believe there are some Jews that have started not to do this.

***
"We are a group of educated and enlightened Jews who realize that the barbaric, primitive, torturous, and mutilating practice of circumcision has no place in modern Judaism.

Rabbi Moses Maimonides himself acknowledged that circumcision is done to desensitize the penis and curb masturbation."



http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

 

an admirable demonstration of the profound ignorance of bigotry.