Questions for Muslims

Actually, most of the so called "hate" that is in the Quran isno different than the stuff in the bible. The Quran never actually says to kill anyone who is not Muslim. The term non-believer was a mistranslation. It actually translates into something like "those who attack Islam." Some, like Osama Bin Laden, interpate this to mean all to kill the enemies of Islam, and believe that anyone who is not Muslim is an enemy. Others interpate it to mean only those who attack Muslims or Islamic nations.

 

I don't have a religion. I was raised a Catholic, and abandoned the religion when I was 15. I haven't had any organized religion for 50 years. I say what I say about Christ and Christianity only because it is logical, makes sense, and to try to dismiss it as unproven or untrue is simply stupid.

And I notice you didn't answer my question > "So you would say other notable people of ancient history have no proof that they lived ? Julius Caesar, Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Plato, Socrates, Aristotle..."

 

When you casually toss the word Bible around, you need to designate which "bible" you're talking about. Old or New Testament. I don't know too much about the Old Testament, and don't pay much attention to either the Old or New, but I know that with regard to the New (Christian) bible, your statement that "most of the so called "hate" that is in the Quran isno different than the stuff in the bible" is absolutely FALSE, and ridiculous.

Also FALSE and ridiculous is the notion that "The Quran never actually says to kill anyone who is not Muslim." Oh no, it only says that on practically every page of the (*)(*)(*)(*) book that's all. And it doesn't confine itself to advocating murder of only "those who attack Islam." FALSE again (strike 3). The Koran advocates offensive war against non-Muslims all over the book. Here's a few examples :

"I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." Quran 8:12

"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them." Quran 9:5

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." Quran 9:73, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 198

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous." Quran 9:123

Notice it says "make war on the infidels who dwell around you" - who just dwell around you. Who just happen to live near you. Not who is attacking you.

So you're another one of those guys who comes in here and tries to get away with whitewashing the Koran, and you figure all the people out there who don't know any better, will be suckered by you, huh ? Well, "actually", no that won't happen, because I won't let it.

 

According to Christ, in Matthew 15:17-20, the old is just as important as the new, and anyone who preaches that the old testament does not matter will be "viewed as the least in heaven". So there is no difference between the new and old. It is all the world of God. In fact, Paul is the only person to ever claim that the old testament did no need to be followed, and he contridicted Christ so much that many early Christians beleived him to be a spy and that he lied about having a vision of Christ.

 

Well, to explain: Paul mainly preached the gospel to heathens (non-Jews). While he advised Jewish Christians to keep the laws concerning circumcision, not eating 'unclean' food etc. if they felt inclined to do so, he saw non-Jewish Christians not bound to it.
And of course he had moral ideas of his own that he imposed on his new congregations: for example that women should shut up in church, obey their husbands and (hahahaha) cover their hair with a veil!

As for protectionist's ignorance of the bible. It's not that hard to obtain a copy and read it.
The OT is full of juicy bloody quotes that could be used to slander both Judaism and Christianity. As you've already pointed out Jesus did indeed say:

Matthew 5:17-20

And he also said lovely things such as this:

Matthew 10: 34-39

Now if I followed protectionist's warped 'logic' (which I don't) and read the Bible in the same uncharitable way that he 'read' the Qu'ran (which I don't), I would come to the conclusion that Christianity clearly promotes total war, suicide killings, and a jurisdiction that makes sharia law look soft in comparison. The level of ignorance and hypocrisy displayed in his posts is staggering.

 

NONSENSE, and nothing more than just another pathetic Islamapologist attempt to excuse the vileness of Islam by trying to equate it to Christianity, when the two are as different as day and night.

One of the reasons why I don't pay much attention to the bible (any bible) s because they were written by MEN, not God. what Jesus Christ says I listen to, but being careful that it is what he said, not what somebody said he said.

If one wants to see the differences between the evils of Islam and the goodness of Christianity, all they have to do is read the words of Jesus, compared to the words of Mo the Pedophile. That says it all. Here's a few samples of that :

1. Jesus Christ - "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you, and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely, on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven."

Mohammad - "And slay them wherever you find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter".

2. Jesus Christ - "..if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also..."

Mohammad - "Will ye not fight a folk who broke their solemn pledges, and purposed to drive out the messenger and did attack you first ?"

3. Jesus Christ - "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

Mohammed - "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah and your enemies, and others besides whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know."

 

This creep is an Islamist. Lying is hardwired into them. My last post (# 306) refuted every bit of his feeble con job attempt. Sure, keep trying Muslim fools. Go ahead, make my day.

 

Your last post proofed nothing other than that you can copypaste selective quotes out of context, which is exactly what I criticized you for. Repeating your 'arguments' over and over again doesn't make them any better.

And this posts either proofs that you have to resort to an argumentum ad hominem once you've realized that your other 'arguments' are getting thin, or it proofs how far paranoia can remove you from reality.

 

I'm not going to actually put much effort in responding to you anymore, until you do the same. Repeating the same thing over and over... Boring. And it isn't even a good argument, just a conspiracy theory lol...

But anyway...

Notice the word "the" infront of "infidels", "idolators", "unbelievers", and "hypocrites". One would assume it is refering to a specific group of people, right?

When you posts verses from the Quran, why do you always avoid posting some of the verses before and after the specific verse? I asked this question before, never got an answer yet.

 

Why do you avoid recognizing the evil in the posts that I do post, and why do you try to whitewash them ? Rhetorical question. Answer > Because you're an Islamist, and deceit is your game. And you can give up on the "out-of-context" jibberish, along with "interpretation" and invalidation attempts at scholars of multiple books with thousands of reputable footnoted sources.
Don't beat a dead horse. Your defenses have already been demolished.

 

1. The word is spelled "proved" not "proofed". When talking to me you must use correct English.

2. I don't accept Latin so I dismiss your "argumentum ad hominem" BS, as nothing more than a failed attempt to try to look smart (which you already blew by misspelling "proved"). LOL.

3. As I just got finished telling OJLeb (for about the 10th time), the "out-of-context" defense is worn out. It died years ago actually. Got overused, and it sure is being overused in this forum, LOL. Be advised that your invalidation
and interpretation defenses have also long gone by the wayside. People got wise to them long ago.

4. As for what I post, I may copy/paste some stuff here & there. No problem. But I also post lots of stuff that's informative, whether copy pasted or not, such as (in this thread) > Post #s 236, 247, 249, 260, 262, 268, 280, 286, 290, 295, 298, 303, and 306. Want to see my Islamization Quiz ? And see if you can answer any of the identifications on it ? May be you could get a higher grade on it than OJLeb and Margot, and some of the other Islamapologists here. You wouldn't have to do much. Highest grade I've seen so far is 5% (most got zero).

 

Where's the evil? I see lots of garbage, then some quotes.

You whine about the "taken out of context" thing, but you do it so often it needs to be said.

If they aren't taken out of context, then whats preventing you from also including some verses before and after those verses? You seem to avoid explaining, instead repeat the same thing over and over again... Yaaawn...

I'm not decieving anybody. Don't know what you think I'm up too, but I'm too busy with work and school to take over the world at this time. Lol.

Salam

 

I 'must' do nothing. And without wanting to sound vain I reckon that my English spelling is actually quite good for someone who is not a native speaker.

Don't worry, while my English is still good enough to make myself understood I'll openly admit that I've forgotten almost all the Latin I learned in school. And I didn't use the term "ad hominem" to sound smart, but because it fitted and it still does. If you don't know it, look it up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Just because you deny it it doesn't mean that it's wrong. It's been amply shown here how you and others quoted selective verses of the Koran out of context, thereby changing their meaning so that they may fit your prejudices.

Your 'Quiz' my dear is a fallacy and one of the silliest things I've ever come across in this forum. Get over it. And you obviously have a problem with information that doesn't fit into your warped view of the world: it just doesn't seem to sink in. Which is why having a debate with you inevitably ends up as moving in circles. Boring.

 

Asking for evidence? Am I the only one who sees the irony?

 

Nope. I see it too. And unlike you I'm a believing Christian.

 

HA HA HA. So you really want to challenge me on your precious little out-of-context defense, huh ? Well, lets take Sura 4:34. Here it is :

"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." Quran 4:34, "Women," Dawood, p. 83

And other translations say :

"...and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them". (Mohammed Habib Shakir, The Quran (Elmhurst, N.Y: Tarike Tarsile Quran, Inc., 1993).

"...admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them."
(Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall, The Meaning of the Glorious Koran, New York: Mentor, 1953).

"...refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly)." The word lightly does not appear in the original Middle Eastern version. (Abdullah Yusef Ali, The Quran (Elmhurst, NY: Tarike Tarsile Quran, Inc., 1997).

"...banish them to their couches, and beat them". Arthur John Arberry, the Koran(Oxford University Press,1983).

Doesn't make a hill of beans out of context or in. Still says beat them. Unacceptable. In context, out of context, or any other way you can drum up.

 

HA HA HA. You do know every time you say "out of context" you're being laughed at 1000 times over. And as the Rock would say "IT DOESN'T MATTER if it's in or out of context. The words are still there. Genocide, imperialism, wife beating, misogyny. pedophilia, slavery, torture, mutilation, animal cruelty, etc.

Oh, now the Quiz is a fallacy. HA HA HA. So Lina Morales is a "fallacy" ? I wonder what Lina Morales or her lawyers say about that ? So Peter DiGangi is a fallacy ? HA HA. I don't think Peter DiGangi thinks he's a fallacy, or anyone in his Algonquin Nation Secretariat in Quebec, or anyone involved in the Arab World History Notebook controversy/fiasco. And Major Stephen Coughlin ? A fallacy ? HA HA HA. And Gilbert Sewall of the American Textbook Council a fallacy ? How could that be ? Or his famous report Islam and the Textbooks ?


Yeah, there's a "fallacy" around here all right, Junobet > a very big, big FALLACY > YOU !

 

I don't believe it. You're an Islamist.

 

Um... Okay, you posted the different translations. But that's no different that what you've been doing, except there's different versions.

I'll repeat myself. Why don't you ever posts some of the verses BEFORE and AFTER the verses you always post.

That doesn't mean post the different translations. Lol and you insulted Junobet for saying "proofs"?

Salam

 

I'm sure that as a stout defender of women's rights you'd agree that this is also unacceptable:

Ephesians 5:22-24:
"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

 

Well, I'm sure in your eyes even the Pope is an Islamist:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmaHUJeW1xE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmaHUJeW1xE[/ame]

 

I would have worn my 47 year old, muddy combat boots in that mosque, guarded by two .380s. LOL.

 

It's quite amazing that you actually think people reading this, are going to care if other verses are posted. Dudes, are you asleep ? I've already said that there are good verses in the Koran. But as long as the bad ones are there, there will be violent jihadists going around killing people, there will be wife-beaters, there will be animal killers, enslavers, pedophiles, torturers, mutilators, etc. Got to get rid of the bad to let the good ones shine. GET IT ?

 

Sure it's unacceptable, (but not as unacceptable as Koran 4:34). So what about it ?

 

Would you conclude from that bible-quote that all Christians are bloody sexists? With your logic you probably should. Don't let the fact that there is feminist Christian theology just as there is feminist Islamic theology get in the way of your prejudices.