The AR15 is, for all intents and purposes, an M16

ok 95%

 

AR 15's are severely retarded M 16's

 

Their owners are even more severely retarded...

 

Not if your intent is accuracy.

 

You like using that word, do you?

 

I know many PhD's that own AR 15's.

 

One bullet at a time only.

 

Oh, agreed, but the issue M-16 fairs poorly in comparison to a custom built AR-15 in .224 Valkyrie or 6.5 Grendel with match barrel, match trigger and handloaded ammo.

 

I'm no big booster of the AR 15... limited range, tumbling issues. I have one in case SHTF and ammo becomes hard to find. 5.56 should stay available more than most.
I'm much happier with an M1A.

 

I have lots of AR 15s and three Ivy degrees. The first guy I ever met who had a real M16 (hard to get in 1969 during Nam but this guy had beaucoup connections) was a millionaire engineer with degree from MIT. Lots of smart people-degreed or not (there's a big difference) own AR 15s. they are the most versatile defensive firearm available to most

 

I prefer NATO 7,62 launchers like the M1A. More range, bigger bullet. It's always better to be able to hit the bad guy before he can hit you.I doin't have "three Ivy degrees". Just an engineering degree from West Point and an MBA

 

it depends what you want to do-I have an MIA too-an AR 10 and three FN-FALs all on 762 NATO. there are cases where the lighter weapon is better-and cases where the heavier one is

 

Exactly. The Army dropped the heavy M14 (with its heavy ammo) for the M16 and the lighter ammo when the need for LRRP's emerged in Viet Nam. I don't intend to hump around a ruck on a two week search and destroy mission no matter what happens. I intend to hunker down and defend my home, in worst case. I'll take the bigger bang of the bigger weapon.

 

The Army started tested lighter weight ammo in .224 caliber in 1950 using the .22-250. The development of the M-16 and .223 Remington predated LRPs/LRRPs by years.

 

Sure, ARDEC (ARmy Research, Development, and Engineering Center) at Picatinny Arsenal has hundreds of R&D programs going on all the time. Right now they have EMP weapons, laser weapons and all sorts of small arms research going on. But most of them are not currently used by the active force. Same with the M16. Initial forces deployed to Viet Nam had M14's. The requirements of the field soon led to the deployment of M16's.

 

I am pro choice-I think you ought to pick whatever weapon you want to have

 

"As a result, the Army was forced to reconsider a 1957 request by General Willard G. Wyman, commander of the U.S. Continental Army Command (CONARC) to develop a .223-inch caliber (5.56 mm) select-fire rifle weighing 6 lb (2.7 kg) when loaded with a 20-round magazine.[23] The 5.56 mm round had to penetrate a standard U.S. helmet at 500 yards (460 meters) and retain a velocity over the speed of sound while matching or exceeding the wounding ability of the .30 Carbine cartridge.[46]

This request ultimately resulted in the development of a scaled-down version of the Armalite AR-10, named the ArmaLite AR-15. The AR-15 was first revealed by Eugene Stoner at Fort Benning in May 1957. The AR-15 used .22-caliber bullets, which destabilized when they hit a human body, as opposed to the .30 round, which typically passed through in a straight line. The smaller caliber meant that it could be controlled in autofire due to the reduced bolt thrust and free recoil impulse. Being almost one-third the weight of the .30 meant that the soldier could sustain fire for longer with the same load. Due to design innovations, the AR-15 could fire 600 to 700 rounds a minute with an extremely low jamming rate. Parts were stamped out, not hand-machined, so they could be mass-produced, and the stock was plastic to reduce weight."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle

"However, advocates of the AR-15 enlisted the support of a redoubtable gun enthusiast, General Curtis Lemay, then the Air Force’s Chief of Staff. Based on his interest, the Air Force conducted further tests and inspections and declared the AR-15 its “standard” model in January of 1962."

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1981/06/m-16-a-bureaucratic-horror-story/545153/

"In December 1965, the 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division, formed a LRRP platoon, and by April 1966, the 1st Infantry Division, 25th Infantry Division and each of the four Battalions of the 173rd Airborne Brigade formed LRRP units as well.[22][25] On 8 July 1966, General William Westmoreland authorized the formation of a (LRRP) unit in each infantry brigade or division in Vietnam. By 1967 formal LRRP companies were organized, most having three platoons, each with five six-man teams equipped with VHF/FM AN/PRC-25 radios. LRRP training was notoriously rigorous and team leaders were often graduates of the U.S. Army's 5th Special Forces Recondo School in Nha Trang, Vietnam.[1][26]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon...text=On 8 July 1966, General,AN/PRC-25 radios.

The AR-15/M-16 was not developed due to LRRP operations in Vietnan.

 

For home defense I picked the bastard child of the 5.56 and 7.62.

 

A local company-HM Defense makes some top ARs-I have a couple of their 556 including a discontinued Billet lower and one of the few 9mm PCCs they made. They make an internally suppressed rig-the choices are 556 and 300 BO. Never owned 300 BO-any thoughts?

 

What's the overall barrel length on the .300 BO model? That could be a one-stamper.

There are very limited options for a subsonic. 300 BO bullet that gives acceptable expansion at subsonic velocities. From what I've read the most popular defense bullet for the BO is the 110 gr Barnes 110 gr TAC-TX, but both the bullets and cartridges have been hard to find over the last few years. I'd need another 100 bullets to find the load and get enough made for practice and loaded mags. I'm using the Hornady 110 gr VMAX which were plentiful enough pre-covid to get 400 factory rounds.

For subs I'm using some hand loads I made with some 220 gr Hornady SSTs. It's so much fun with just how quiet a suppressed .300 BO shooting subs can be. My LGS manager also hooked me up with an ammo can have full of .300 subs the shop picked up in an estate sale. He knew I shot .300 BO and offered it to me for $50. I counted 250 rounds in the can, so I picked up some nice subsonic rounds for $0.20 a piece. That was a good day.

Since you already have 5.56 and 9mm, why not go for the .300 BO? I'd really suggest getting a can if you don't have one in .30 caliber. That's where the fun really begins.

 

its a one stamper

 

Yes... DEVELOPED but not DEPLOYED. The M16 was around being tested, (DT/OT) and developed for years. But it was not DEPLOYED until Viet Nam requirements demanded it. You mention 1966. The M16 went to war years before that. I had a friend and mentor, Justin "Gene" McCarthy. He was one of the first Green Beanies. He was in Viet Nam in 1961, before we were supposed to officially be there. He was issued an M14 originally, but was issued an M16 long before your 1966 date as the result of field requirements. (Amazing how Special Ops guys get what they want... when they want.) The heavy M14 and its heavy ammo just didn't cut it on long patrols. Green Berets spend long periods in the boonies with indigenous forces and something lighter was required. They got it in the M16 long before the regular forces did based on their unique requirements. When I knew Gene at TRADOC in the early 1980's he was still an amazing guy. A retired LTC by then, he was getting frail and his hands were mangled from being in Operation Elder Son. I['d walk in the office every day and ask him how he was doing. He'd shout out "ROCKIN' ON!!" I found out later that he had received a classified Medal of Honor, when he and a hospitalized buddy held off a Cong attack at a medical facility.

Interesting about LeMay. I wonder how many Air Force fast movers owe their success to an Infantryman.

 

LRRPs were formed in 1966, and as you note the AR-15 and M-16 were developed and deployed in Vietnam before that.

One of my tac officers had been a Marine 60 gunner in Vietnam and the other had been a Cobra gunner. The chopper guy was the weird one, interestingly enough.

I had a coworker mention that he flew helicopters for the Navy in Vietnam. He was gobsmacked when I asked "Seawolves"? He said in the 25 years since he'd been out he'd never met anyone who knew who they were.

 

I don't know much about the Navy. I can talk about Phalanx because its a clone of the Army Vulcan. I can talk about sensor fused weapons because I worked in a few FSE's. I wouldn't know a "Seawolf" from a jumbo shrimp. I know Army Cobra's inside and out (interesting story how I grounded all the Army Cobra's for awhile in the 1980's). And I'm very conversant with Apache.

A buddy of mine's son married a female SEABEE. They flew from North Island on a SeaHawk to the deck of the Midway, where they were married. Great fun.

I got to "gun" both a Cobra and n Apache while I was at TRADOC. I was part of a team designing MILES (Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System) training system for Army and Marine weapon systems and got to operate all sorts of stuff. A great and fun opportunity... a bit odd for an Artillery Officer... but I loved it.

 

How do you feel about your new name? (Novosel)