A) - AFAIK - it does'nt appear that Christian + Jewish existence was ignored, If spent a few moments checking , you'll discover/learn that Mohamed contacted Nestorian Monks and also had contacts with Jews in Yathrib(Medina) who initially welcomed him , but , as the story goes , SOME Jews broke their treaty + joined Mohamed's enemies. I'm no theologian , and I doubt its a dispute/question either of us are really qualified to settle. cheers. .
may be he means, they were isolated in Arabia and not very influential, or may be it means that majority of Arabia were pagan
If you are interested then perhaps unlike Marlowe, you can give a straight answer to the question? Do you regard it as a true statement that Mohammed was born into an Arabia, a world of polytheistic religion? A simple yes or no would surfice. I don't pretend to be very knowledgable about Arabia at that time but on the surface it seems to me not to reflect the truth ignoring as it does, the presence of Christianity and Judaism and the clear influence of these on Mohammed and the founding of Islam.
In the statement under consideration I would say they are ignored, do you disagree? You appear to agree with me providing as you do information on monotheists in Mohammed's world, Arabia however your focus is clearly another. You seem incapable of understanding the question. Would it also take a theologian and profound knowledge to answer the same question about Jesus or Sun Myung Moon? Surely it isn't a big mystery and answering it is a matter of history not theology.
i don't know, but the common knowledge that Arabs were Mainly Pagans at the time. i don't know how many christians were they and how many jews. It is said that Christians were in Levant and in Najran, while some small jewish population was in Medina and probably in Bahrain (no percentages i have, no sources) that is just what i heard everybody repeating in their newspaper articles from time to time
The Jewish king of Yemen burned the Christians of Najran. The Christian king of Ethiopia came to the rescue and after Muhammed achieved some power he too guaranteed their safety. There was also a Nestorian Bishopric in the Easter Province (Tarut island)
What do you think about the statement, does it reflect the true situation? Does it have something to do with Mohammed's birthplace Mecca's status as a holy place for polytheists? Are there any estimates of the Arab population and their religion at the time?
The whole of Saudi Arabia had a tiny population.. Even in 1940 the population was less than 800,000. Like Palestine, it couldn't support a large population. In the "Time of the Ignorance".. there was a lot of idol worship. If you recall, when Muhammed cleared the Kaaba, he destroyed all the idols and icons except the icons of the Virgin Mary.
Hi Margot , I've heard litlle bits abt the Nestorian monks + Christian Ethiopean King , friendly receptions to Muslims etc. its also mentioned , the BBC documentary. But Oops and Thanks - Najran is new to me. - quick google produced this which'll be added to my files. ,Conflict between Jews and Christians The highlight of Christian presence in South Arabia caused a severe clash between Jews and Christians. Various Christian sources reveal that the arrival and spread of Christianity in South Arabia, particularly Najran, was bitterly opposed by the local Jews which would later have serious implications on both sides. The Jews of Najran were in contact with their co-religionists in Palestine and were seemingly effective prosletyzers. The existence of Judaism in Southern Arabia also preceded the existence of Christianity by several centuries and dated back to the destruction of the Second temple in 70 CE. The Christians of Najran later came into conflict with the Jewish rulers of Yemen, which ended in their being massacred in 524 by the Himyarite king, Yusuf As'ar Dhu Nuwas. The Najranite Christians, like other Southern Arabian Christian communities, had close connections with the ecclesiastical authorities in Byzantium and Abyssinia. They were identified by virtue of their religion as "pro-Axumite" and "pro-Byzantine". Dhu Nuwas hoped to create, in the rich lands of Southern Arabia, a "Davidic" kingship which was independent of the Christian powers. He also considered Najran to be a Byzantine base that controlled the Red Sea trade route and did harm to the economic situation of Himyar. When Dhu Nuwas invaded, he called upon its people to abandon Christianity and embrace Judaism. When they refused, he had them thrown into burning ditches alive. Estimates of the death toll from this event range up to 20,000 Hmmm.... THx again. ..
LETTER TO NEGUS, KING OF ETHIOPIA : In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful. From Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophet of Allah to Negus King of Ethiopia. I praise Allah, except Whom there is none to be worshipped, who is the Ruler of the world. He is innocent and pure free from all blemishes, defects, flaws, or shortcomings). He gives refuge and sustains all. I do admit that Isa (Jesus) (peace be upon him) son of Mariam (Mary), was the soul from Allah and His word (Order), he was infused to Mariam, who was clean and proof against evil. And Isa (peace be upon him) was born of Mariam. Allah created him from His soul and breath in the same manner as He created Adam (peace be upon him) with His own hand. I invite you towards Allah the One who has no associate. Believe in Him and join me in obedience to Him. Follow me and accept my prophethood because I am the Messenger of Allah. I have wished - you well in conveying the message of Allah in all sincerity. It is up you to accept my sympathetic advice. Extend the same invitation to your subjects. I am sending my cousin Jaffer (R.A.A.) with the other Muslims. When they reach you, treat them hospitably, by setting aside the vanity and pride of a ruler. Peace be on him, who followed the right path. Note: As mentioned earlier, after the Holy Prophet began to preach Islam, the Quraish became the bitterest enemies of Islam. In the beginning they taunted, teased and maltreated the Muslims. But by and by their opposition took the shape of tyranny. Their treatment of the Muslims, particularly of the poorer ones was so brutal, that they felt extremely unsafe in Mecca and feared annihilation at the hands of the Quraish. At that stage, (6th year before Hijri i.e. 614 A.D.) the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) allowed the Muslims to temporarily migrate to Ethiopia, as he expected a good treatment by the King of Ethiopia. The Muslims began to migrate to the neighboring country of Ethiopia. This continued till the famous Migration of the Holy Prophet, after which the migrants began to return to Medina The last caravan returned from Ethiopia in 7th Hijra - about 629 A.D. when the second Caravan went to Ethiopia, the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) addressed a letter to the King of Ethiopia. The Quraish could not tolerate that the Muslims should live in peace even in Ethiopia. They sent a delegation to Negus and pointed out to him that the Muslims had a strange faith which was altogether new and requested that the Muslims should be sent back. The King concluded from the Muslims about their beliefs. On that occasion Jaffar (R.A.) made a very impressive speech, saying. "They were an extremely ignorant and pagan nation who worshipped self-made idols. Debauchery, cruelty and eating the dead was their way of life, but Allah sent a Prophet (peace be upon him) who changed their lives altogether. He admonished them to worship Allah only and to regard Him as their Master. He preached to them always to be truthful; and not to misappropriate a trust, treat neighbors kindly, avoid bloodshed and all that Allah has prohibited. Worship Allah, the One observe fasts and pay Zakat. This was the crime, for which their countrymen forced them to leave their hearths and homes and they had to take refuge in Ethiopia." The King of Ethiopia was highly moved by the speech and clearly announced that he would not allow such pious people to be tyrannized. The Muslims, thereafter, always had a deep regard for Ethiopia and never did they think of attacking that country. They conquered big countries like Iran, but never touched the neighboring Ethiopia.
The Kaaba was used by the pagans as a shrine to many gods. 360 of them. The prophet removed the idols and fought the pagans to restore the Kaaba to monotheism.
Tyrerik , I guess , christians + Jews were then minorities. Vast majoriy being polytheists. The England (rural) my grandfather was born in was Christian (either C of E /Catholic or Protestant, ) Jews + others were seldom - very seldom , seen or noted . ...
What you say is absolutely correct. This is what Islam teaches. That is why the Jews and Christians are said by us to be Muslims. They followed Islam. They submitted to one God. Then they strayed. They became lost. Their belief became distorted and the last prophet was the seal sent not to the Jews as all the others had been, but this final time to all mankind. His message was for everyone and was warning about the distortions and trying to get people back to the right path of Islam. Islam which pre dated the prophet Mohammed PBUH.
Burning was the favourite method used by the Christians to kill heretics also during the inquisition. I read that burning was such a horrific death that the 2nd Queen of Henry the 8th sentence for alleged witch craft was changed to beheading. But nowadays they believe she was not a witch but he wanted an excuse to get rid of her to chopped off her head and then later chopped the head of another and eventually had 6 wives.
Yes Abu , we've got quite a record on that , Guy Fawkes who apparently tried to blow up Parllament was tarred + feathered before being burnt. We still love burning people but thankfully now a days , only burn their effigies . Unlike Mohamed Bouazizi, the fruit vendor who set himself on fire, becoming a symbol of defiance in Tunisia and the start of the Arab spring. According to some prophets Fire is the best purifyer. cheers.
Yep - she looks like a right slapper see http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=slapper cheers.
Apparently not only sacred for pagans but also Christians: In her book, Islam: A Short History, Karen Armstrong asserts that the Kaaba was dedicated to Hubal, a Nabatean deity, and contained 360 idols which either represented the days of the year,[24] or were effigies of the Arabian pantheon. Once a year, tribes from all around the Arabian peninsula, whether Christian or pagan, would converge on Mecca to perform the Hajj.
The more I read and is touched on here - for example the Jewish/Christian kingdom in Yemen, predominantly Christian community in southern Iraq and histories of substancial Christian /Jewish communities up until recent history, the more I think the polytheists were not a vast majority at all.
interesting opinion but do you have solid and concrete evidence that polytheism was not majority? because what learned, and what i see from you guys that these were localized spots where there was christians and jews, and spread over different times like the story of Najran! today still there is jews in yemen as i heard but compared to the several and main arab tribes who were pagan, i don't imagine how they can't be majority
I didn't state they weren't a majority. Marlowe was guessing that they were the vast majority and compared this to Christians in his grandfather's rural England. I think populations in Arabia were mainly concentrated in localised spots due to hostile climate/geography with oasis habitation and other small havens capable of supporting human habitation. It seems as though they played their part in the history of the time rather than being isolated entities. Remember the question is whether it is true to say that Mohammed was born into an Arabia of polytheistic religion. Do you have any evidence about the breakdown between mono and polytheists at that time in Arabia?
