The more Godless America becomes, the more 'uncivil' it also becomes

Jesus made Peter put up his sword and allowed Himself to be taken captive, knowing full well what the result of that action would be. Not fighting back become an act that would resonate in history to the present day. Fighting back would not have garnered Him a footnote.

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Found in both Proverbs and Romans.

 

Lies. Hans Blix was begging Bush to stand down, that nothing could be found, but the blood thirst wouldn't allow it. What was the rush, why was there a time frame to bringing mass destruction to Baghdad?

 

Why did Jesus tell his disciples to get a sword in the 1st place?

Jesus didnt fight back as He was suppose to die..same reason he didnt verbally defend Himself. as that was His destiny.

I never did get an answer for the scenario of " if Mary His mother was being brutalized, gang raped, etc. in front of Him...WWJD? Turn the other cheek? Offer them a glass of water? Wisdom comes into the equation, as per the Spirit of Wisdom!

[Btw, I have to use a little tough love on Bruce every so often. Thk God we didnt have more Americans like him during the cold war days, or we'd all be speaking Russian right now! ]

 

So, Jesus contradicted himself? And I thought Christians said that god is allowed to do things humans are not. So, while god can punish others, he tells you to turn the other cheek. And no point did Jesus instruct his followers to use any kind of violence whatsoever.

It was bad intelligence that was used to lie to the public. It was very flimsy and they knew it. I suggest you watch this documentary.

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/03/22/how-the-bush-administration-sold-the-iraq-war/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtmN9VOnXR4

 

Read my response to Bruce about telling them to carry a shank, er I mean, sword.

Btw, MSNBC as a source....

Also,. who is this 'god?' Or do you mean 'God?'

 

Jesus taught pacifism and NOTHING else for his followers.

 

Cite the Bible passage. And go read mine from Jesus. Are you saying Jesus contradicts himself?

Go ahead, keep sticking your head in the sand. The interviews are with officials. It's really pathetic that 10 years later, you're still in denial about Iraq. Is there any source you WOULD accept? Unlikely.

 

Bruce, you're no fun today. Btw, what's a single guy doing on this God-forsaken forum on a Sat night?! I'm multi tasking: watching baseball, fielding my wife's questions, and keeping you guys straight on this forum...well 2 out of 3 aint bad..gnite..will catch all the 'cheap shots' 2moro...

 

And this is why the military is under the constraints of the civilians.

 

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

 

You said that we are to be passive in all situations, so then why would you defend yourself if attacked and not 'turn the other cheek?'

I read turn the other cheek' as being slow to anger and retaliation. The 1st cheek is 'smitten,' and the 2nd and remaining cheek is 'offered.'

And again, was Jesus 'passive' when he saw the money changers in the temple and attacked them with a whip--what was the whip for? Not to just turn over tables, but to drive away the persons there!

Again, the Spirit of Wisdom must be applied to every situation that arises...just as Jesus wouldnt stand idle while His mother was being brutalized in front of Him.

 

tab·er·na·cle n.
1. often Tabernacle The portable sanctuary in which the Jews carried the Ark of the Covenant through the desert.

 

The whole 'carry a sword' scripture has been 'apologized' by many over the years.

[and btw, what was Peter a fisherman doing with a sword when they came for Jesus? Zeal?]

The one that has gotten the most 'play' is that they were to carry a 'Bible' or scriptures of their time, as the Word of God is called "the Sword of the Spirit."

And Paul talked later about "we war not against flesh & blood, but spiritual wickedness...."

And so thru the ages, from the Crusades onward to today for the Amish ppl, how far do Christians go in defending their families, etc?! Could a 'man' (husband & father) watch while his family is brutalized & killed in front of him?!

EDIT: site is molasses 2day--later

 

Yes, the military is too close to the action and is goal (winning) orientated.

We still wonder if Patton & Mac Arthur were allowed to go on with their wars how would the world have turned out to be today

And Viet Nam was lost by the 'civilians' in charge, tying the hands of the Generals, not allowing them to go where they needed to 'win' the war.

But a military run top-to-bottom regime would be as N. Korea is today...chomping at the bit to use all of their arsenal!

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, the military is too close to the action and is goal (winning) orientated.

We still wonder if Patton & Mac Arthur were allowed to go on with their wars how would the world have turned out to be today

And Viet Nam was lost by the 'civilians' in charge, tying the hands of the Generals, not allowing them to go where they needed to 'win' the war.

But a military run top-to-bottom regime would be as N. Korea is today...chomping at the bit to use all of their arsenal!

 

except that is not the same word used for Noah's ark....

 

In fact the tabernacle was the structure, The Ark or Aron was a box with the tablets of the 10 Commandments, the bones of Joseph and other items according to tradition.

Noah's ark was a Teva, a different word, also used for the basket that Moses was in.

 

Back on topic:

ci•vil•i•ty
n., pl. -ties.
1. courtesy; politeness.
2. a polite action or expression.
3. Archaic. civilization; culture; good breeding.

incivility - deliberate discourtesy


The cycle from our present knowledge of history:

Farming>>>Settlement>>>Religion>>>Temple>>>Cities

God or gods were instrumental to taking groups of ppl and joining (as with 'unity') them into hierarchy's of civilized ppls.

When civility starts to crumble, usually ppl fall into 'dis-unity' and no longer have a God or gods to unite them.

And more so with a nation who acknowledged the God and Father of Jesus, who spoke the Beatitudes, who is later ignored and even 'forced out,' then incivility (rejecting those Beatitudes) comes into being..and the dis-unity will bring that nation down over time....

 

There is much discussion of Jesus being the 'ark of a new and better covenant,'

Noah's 'ark' carried the righteous of that time picked by God and protected them from the judgment upon the earth of the flood.

As long as the Israelites followed their ark of the covenant they were kept from judgment and protected from their enemies.

Jesus has become the ark of a new covenant, and those that follow Him will be kept from final judgment.

And looking at the type of the Tabernacle (containing an ark) or also referred to as 'Booths,' it is a type of protection from the judgment of the Trib, as God's wrath is not meant for His followers...

 

The Booths you speak of were also a different word...sukkot....

Tell you what, before you try to explain the Hebrew Bible to people it might be helpful if you learn some Hebrew. Otherwise you can easily fall into the pit of learning from people who don't know what they are talking about.

 

If we take the scriptures, "God no longer lives in a temple made by human hands, " and ""Know not that our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit," then when we build our tabernacles or booths to ready for the Trb, then 'we' become the Holy of Holies with the Holy Spirit dwelling within us....

 

Is that why the Jews of Jesus time 'missed' their Messiah?!' They had the words but did not understand the Spirit behind them....and that is what dead letters on printed pages produce without the enlightenment of the Spirit of God....

 

Also, Civilization and City have similar roots, meaning ppl gathered for commerce, etc.as in having common purpose.

 

The cursing bothers you? Of all the horrible things people think and do to each other these days cursing is at the bottom of my list.

I do not curse in front of my children, but I do not try to unduly protect them from other peoples profanity. I just tell them that if they say those words in front of me it won't end well. I tell them that cursing is a sign of poor self control, is offensive to many people, and that I do not curse for those reasons.

I am not christian but I wonder at what the world would be like if all religion was instantly wiped out. Without a solid objective reason to be moral how would the majority of people behave? I think it might not be so bad if the idea of a vengeful god were not in our group psyche. But since it is I think a lot of peoples morals, ethics and principles might fall into limbo. It could be bad.

Or not. I do not think we will ever know.

Every generation has felt that the world was falling away from God at some point. But look back in history and things aren't that bad right now. We had slavery. Before prohibition we had a massive drinking problem. Murder and prostitution were widespread during the western expansion period, and murder remained normal in the appalachian mountains up into the 1930's. New York was a pirate haven to begin with and rampant kidnapping and extortion were the norm there until the early 1900's. And on and on. The good old days........

Anyway relax. Keep your own corner clean. Remember the golden rule, remember when to bother with the mote in your brothers eye, and remember vengeance is the lords.

peace

 

You completely ignored the passage from Jesus that I posted. You also ignored my point about how we are not Jesus, so just because he does something doesn't mean he wants everyone else to do as well. Again, does this look like Jesus wants you to do anything but be passive?

Matthew 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.