We broke all records of cases, deaths, and hospitalizations today

will Trump even address this, probably not

 

True. There are certain situations that are riskier than others. Everything that involves eating around a table is worse because people are necessarily maskless. This includes restaurants and diner parties at a friend's home. Bars, even worse because they tend to be noisy so people shout and the more forcefully air is expelled from the lungs, the more virus-laden aerosol. Gyms, people are exercising so their respiration is more forceful. All these are prime opportunities for the virus to jump from one person to the next. People are highly infectious two days before they develop symptoms, and six days after symptoms. Maybe we don't need a full lockdown but at least people should abandon these risky behaviors listed above until the vaccines are given to most of the population.

 

Why are people visiting other people's homes?
I've not been inside anyone's home since March.

 

~ Tell all those who had family members drop dead in Wuhan China during November and December that the virus did not originate there. Look at the cremation and mortuary records in Wuhan China at the end of 2019. See the satellite video from of the Wuhan hospital and read the admittance records for the same time period.
The only "bunk" is coming from network news and the Chinese Communist Government. There is many reasons to cover up China's involvement. There is no reason to conjure up a theory.

 

I suspect that if you had grown up mixed race in Apartheid Sth Africa your views on race & racism might be a bit closer to his. Some benefit of the doubt might be in order for someone whose life experience you can't being to imagine.

 

I don't doubt that a bunch of people died in Wuhan. You are obviously not aware of what the University of Barcelona found. It doesn't surprise me.
If the virus was found in Barcelona 9 months before it surfaced in China, the most likely explanation is that it was dormant and with low virulence, then mutated, and some Catalan businessman inadvertently took it to China (or a Chinese tourist visiting Barcelona took it back to China), then it exploded there. It was also found on November 27th 2019 in Florianópolis, Brazil. And how cute, you think I base my SCIENTIFIC knowledge (after 40 years in this profession), out of network news... Rather, here (click on Preview PDF):
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.13.20129627v1
And here:
https://www.ub.edu/web/ub/en/menu_eines/noticies/2020/06/042.html
And here (page in Portuguese, you can use Google Translate):
https://noticias.ufsc.br/2020/11/la...a-parcerias-para-pesquisas-com-o-coronavirus/
And you know what? I don't talk to conspiracy theorists. Have a nice life.

 

~ We don't know if this is fact or fabricated for the benefit of the CCP. It is just as likely a small amount of virus escaped and was spread in several areas until the entire dump happened in Wuhan.
China has much influence around the world - their relationship with Barcelona should be investigated.

 

It has nothing to do with our views. I did not observe any difference in our views on race and racism.

 

Which either means you have an 'offputting obsession' with race & racism or you are being disingenuous.

There is literally no way you could have the same views unless you had grown up as a mixed race kid in Aparthieid Sth Africa.

 

LOL. Two people can have the exact same views but express those views in very different ways. Two people can have the same views on anything and one can be obsessive and the other not.

Attempting to equate life experiences with views and beliefs is disingenuous. Only someone who operates on emotion instead of logic and reason could make such a statement. Saying someone not of mixed race can’t share the views of a mixed race person is outright racism. Textbook racism.

 

Then they have different views. If someone is 'obsessive' then by definition their view is different to someone who is not. That really doesn't seem like a difficult concept to understand.

Only someone who has not grown up in a society where their race marks them as a second class citizen could believe that emotion can be divorced from views on race & racism or any other lived experience for that matter. The idea that there is some sort of intellectual purity in pretending it can is itself a way to put down people who experience racism. It is easy to be 'logical' about something that only impacts you second or third hand.

There is literally no way you can understand what it is like being mixed race, let alone being mixed race in a society where laws render you a second class citizen. You may be sympathetic to the position such people are in, you may even share the same goals some of them have, and agree with them, but those are only components of a view, not the whole thing.

You can't understand Trevor Noah's life except in a remote, intellectual sense. Therefore you can't have the same views he has on race & racism. Pretend all you want, but it just isn't possible.

 

~ Some people are actually proud of their racism like a badge of honor - yet are quick to see racism in others. They are obsessed with judgement and critical of others. Their life sucks and they live in the "victimhood" mentality - but it's their own fault. We all know what their political views are.

 

Joe Biden gets elected and Covid-19 cases and DEATHS are rising faster than they ever were under President Trump. I knew irresponsible Democratic Governors and Mayors across the country screwed their States and Cities by not taking Covid-19 seriously and caused a lot of unnecessary Deaths, but now that Democrats have the White House the WHOLE Country is going to see it's Death Rates go WAY! up. Way to go Commies.

 

Correction for post #48: in the meta-analysis I mentioned, masks dropped the adjusted relative risk by 82%, not 85% like I said, wrongly quoting by memory (not a big difference, but just to be precise). My friend @557 brought the error to my attention. He also correctly said that only quoting the drop in relative risk without quoting the absolute risk can be misleading. It can, if one says for example that the relative risk for something dropped by 50%, failing to quote that the absolute risk was 1% and it dropped to 0.5%; the 50% drop is true, but it's pretty tiny and not relevant anyway: you just went from a tiny risk to a risk that is a bit tinier.

In this case, though, it wasn't tiny. The percentage of infections in the unmasked groups pooled together was 17.4%, and in the masked group it was only 3.1%. This is very significant. 3.1 is approximately 18% of 17.4.

17.4% is a risk of 1 in 5.7. That is, approximately the same (a little bit worse, actually) as a Russian Roulette with a 6-shot revolver. 3.1% is a risk of 1 in 32.

I don't know about you all, but I wouldn't play with a Russian Roulette. I find it to be a risk I am not willing to take.

What would you prefer, walking around with a risk of catching a deadly disease (when it doesn't kill you it can still maim you) of 1 in 5.7, or rather, 1 in 32?

I've never pretended that masks are 100% effective. They don't drop the risk to zero. But a reduction of 82%, going from 1 in 5.7 to 1 in 32, is pretty darn helpful, in my opinion.

Also, you need to realize that this risk of 17.4%, or 1 in 5.7, can vary in different populations and situations. The risk of catching Covid-19 was MUCH SMALLER earlier in the pandemic, than now, when we are in a situation of more cases, more deaths, and more hospitalizations than ever before. More important in this case than the absolute risk, is the relative risk drop. All things being equal (which is why we speak about adjusted risk), this ratio should remain relatively constant. So, now, going to restaurants and bars and gyms and large gatherings carries a very sizable risk, probably in certain places way more than 17.4%, so, a worse Russian Roulette than 1 in 5.7... But with masks you'd still reduce this larger risk by about 82%.

Not to forget, this meta-analysis pooled together studies done with N95 respirators and facemasks. Generally, the N95s were much better. In one of the studies done with N95s, the relative risk was 0.04, that is, a 96% drop! Which is why I've been saying, the right kind of mask worn the right way is pretty protective.

 

Incorrect. From what I can tell, both Noah and I believe opinions and ideas of others should be given the same consideration regardless of the race or country of origin of the person expressing the opinion or idea. As I, he seems to want a society willing to listen to and learn from people who come from different backgrounds or geographical locations. The difference is I’m content to just listen and learn from others. He seems obsessed with pointing out instances where people don’t/didn’t listen and proactively urging change with words as opposed to just setting an example. Different actions, the same views.

If you ever want racism to end or decrease you dang well better learn to divorce emotion from views on race and racism.

I believe what I opened this post with. I believe what MLK believed. That we should all judge each other on character alone. You are essentially saying Noah and I can’t both believe that. The belief Noah and Martin and I can’t share common values is racism at its core. Oh, and I would never claim to understand Noah’s life experience. But we can both use logic and reason to conclude we have equal value as humans and treat each other accordingly. Hopefully someday you and others like you can let go of your feelings and do the same.

 

Huh, are you just being sarcastic? One never knows, around here. Because if you are not, you might have an interest in realizing that Biden is not yet the president. What is happening, is happening under Trump's watch. Biden only takes over on January 20th.

 

It's called fighting Liberal Fire with Liberal Fire. Liberals ignore Andrew Cuomo sending Covid-19 patients to nursing homes or Nancy Pelosi in San Francisco's China Town urging people to ignore the Pandemic and come down and celebrate. There are countless examples of irresponsible Hypocritical Democratic policies that led to the Deaths of Thousands of People during this Pandemic, but Liberals only want to pin it on President Donald Trumps shoulders. Well, now that the shoes on the other Foot, I'm blaming Joe Biden and the Democrats for EVERYTHING! in the Country that goes to ****. I'm actually hoping Joe Biden proves me wrong and brings America's Economy and low unemployment back to Pre Pandemic levels, because that benefits me and I'll support him until starts F'ing up and then I'm going to do the same thing to him that Liberals have been doing to Trump for 4 years, but a least I'll give him a Chance, something Democrats NEVER! gave Trump.

 

There's a meme floating around this forum.

If masks work, why the social distancing? If social distancing works, why the masks? If both work, why the shutdown?"

It's the same as "if evolution is true, why didn't my goldfish give birth to a cow?"

CF - I'm not sure how to get Americans to understand the scientific method, again. We need a pro-science movement.

 

Full Lockdown - if you are going to do it .. then do it .. not half measures. With a full lockdown you should be able to flatten the curve in less than a month.

 

~ Has the Curse of Biden already begun ...?

 

Fair enough. Me, not a liberal, I've ALWAYS blamed Cuomo and Pelosi TOO (and have posted accordingly), which doesn't mean I don't blame Trump as well. Two wrongs don't make a right. On the other hand, the Republican governor of South Dakota is also to blame. The Democratic governor of Hawaii is to be praised, as well as the Republican governor of Maryland. As an independent centrist, my blaming these people doesn't have anything to do with whether they have an R or a D attached to their names.

 

LOL
You can't fix stupid.

 

Next week we it will be a 9/11 every damn day.

Then it will get worse than that.

 

True. But the issue is, like others have noticed, Americans will not obey a full lockdown, unless we do like Italy: they put the Army on the streets to enforce it, and passed a law making of the violation of the lockdown, a felony called "aiding a pandemic" with sentence guidelines of heavy fines and prison sentences of up to 12 years. Once they indicted 40,000 people, showing that they meant business, oops, the whole population started obeying the lockdown orders. But this wouldn't fly here. Next, armed militias would revolt.

 

We have not locked down fully - barely partially if you get down to it .. sans places like NY where the thing was out of control.
If they enforced it people would obey.