Why Do The Serbs And Albanians Hate Each Other?

So you googled it, purchased it, read it and posted here for me to 'read' and all that in 5 mins. ? Please, copy/paste specific parts of the purchased articles you think support your position so we can all see and debate.

Actually, you got it all wrong...
'Official war' as you call it, lasted from March 24th 1999. to June 11th 1999. Before that 'official' war, open armed conflicts between Yugoslav armed forces and Albanian terrorists (UCK/KLA), was from the beginning of the 1998 till 1999.
According to you 'official' war lasted till 2002... Provide sources for that claim, please.

Also, maybe you're not familiar with the word 'prior' and you confused my writing, but I was pointing out the period before 1999.
Once again:
'British defense secretary George Robertson during parliamentary testimony:'Up until (January 1999) the KLA were responsible for more deaths in Kosovo than the Yugoslav authorities had been.'
(link provided in a previous post)

Frozy, you're yet about to prove a single thing here. What is 'proven' to you, is a subject of a debate and that's the whole purpose of one forum.

'80s...

or :

Serbs 'started all wars'??? In some of the wars in the region we didn't even participated as a nation to begin with!

Did Serbs participated in the war between Bosnian Muslims and Croats in Bosnia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lašva_Valley_ethnic_cleansing

Did Serbs participated in the short war in FYRoMacedonia between Macedonian security forces and Albanian 'insurgents'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency_in_the_Republic_of_Macedonia

On other 'wars' open separate threads and I'll be more than glad to participate and provide valid sources to prove you wrong.

What's with all that rudeness? Are you trying to deny me rights other posters have just because I'm an ethnic Serb? This is a political forum, not your private facebook acct. or a newsletter; debate and dispute if you can...simple!

 

Now, I must disagree 'cause there's no logic in it . We actually here debated already on that 'forceful' conversion of Albanians to Islam.
Skenderbeg lived in the 15th century (1403–68 ) and Albanians mostly converted to Islam at the beginning of the 17th century. What's with a gap of almost 2 centuries?

 

Bosnian Muslims are not only Bosnians who wanted the independence obviously. Citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina voted for independence. Why? Perhaps being part of Greater Serbia a.k.a remnant of Yugoslavia was not that convenient option, and perhaps they had same reasons like Slovenes and Croats would you even ask them ?!

 

First, i tend to post relevant resources, not 5 minute articles

Second, Serbia did participate in war between Croats and Bosnians - Milosevic and Tudjman did cooperate in this war, which was really direct cooperation otherwise foreigners wouldn't interfere and force cease fire between HVO and ARBiH.

Third, Macedonian tensions towards Macedonian Albanians were result of Serbian tensions and they were encouraged by Serbian government as well.

It is not rudeness, i am not denying you rights because you are an ethnic Serb ( i don't really care what you are if we are going to talk abt that ) - i am denying you rights to judge other nation while your nation was doing practically same thing to other nationS.

 

I would ask them, too. Why did citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina vote this way and what was so inconvenient, especially compared to what happened later?

 

Where is the difference?

 

i would treat her same if she was even albanian

 

First, thanks for the response DaVinci.

There also have been Ottoman fights against Anatolian Turkish dynasties, especially agaisnt dynasty of Karamanids. About half of their population got exiled to Balkans once Karamanid Dynasty got conquered.
Anyway, how are Albanians were "forcefully converted to Islam" at all? Up to my knowledge Albanians converted because of Ottomans giving favourable status giving to Muslims. On the other hand, how come Serbs, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Hungarians, Romanians etc are not Muslims today then?

If you seek forceful conversions to Islam, take a look at bloody Arab conquests by Arab caliphates, especially against Persians, Turks and some other Caucassian tribes etc that's where forceful conversions happened how they're Muslims today.

So? What's your point? The links was providing sources about the origins.

Yes he's one person I respect much, as I'm a fan of Galatasaray but sadly Ali Sami Yen stadium, which was nicknamed "Hell" by us Galatasaray suppoers, is no more home of Galatasaray.

The new stadium is this, Turk Telekom Arena: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Türk_Telekom_Arena
It has more capaticy and is much more improved.

 

Unfortunately, you misinterpreted my comment and sure it has a lot of logic in it
First , I didn't mentioned any specific date, but, for sure if you read carefully you will find out what I was pointing at ...
"The march of the Islamic Jihad in what is today an almost entirely Muslim nation Albania was one of the most bloodiest in the Balkans. In fact these massacres both on and beyond the battlefield smothered Christianity and made Albania today into a Muslim nation. Thousands of Albanians laid down their lives to repulse the invasion of their ancient Illyrian homeland by the Ottoman Jihadis. Many Albanians fled these massacres and settled in Italy.
One surviving evidence of the massacres are the Arbëreshë who are an Albanian-speaking group living in southern Italy. These people settled in Italy during the 15th and 16th centuries, after the great Albanian hero Skanderbeg died. There was also a second group of emigrés from the Himarë region in Southern Albania, who left after the massacre of some 6000 people who refused to convert to Islam at the orders of Ali Pasha Tepelena. This group constitutes most of the ancestors of the inhabitants of the villages of Hora e Arbëreshëvet Piana degli albanesi and Sëndahstina (Santa Cristina Gela) in Southern Italy."

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/History_of_Jihad_Against_the_Albanians

And, second, Skanderbeg was born on 17 January , 1405 (not 1403 as you have written)...

 

First, you are welcome .
Second, you can read my response addressed to Lena in order to find your answer.... as for other nations who didn't converted you should ask them, not me !
Third, regarding Attaturk nothing bad on it , just hinted that he might be from Albanian origin.
Fourth, Ali Sami Yen is son of Sami Frasheri another Albanian who contributed in reforming of Turkish literature; furthermore he is considered to had played major role on creating of modern Turkish alphabet.

 

Citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina thought perhaps that serbian nationalism in its worst form would harm their integrity and according to events in Slovenia and Croatia choose freedom instead of being part of serb regime. Bosnian-Herzegovinian citizens had all rights to separate themselves from ruin called SR Yugoslavia, referendum was legally conducted and results of referendum lead to independence of our country-which is totally legal and which is no reason for Yugoslavian, i.e foreign at that time-army together with serb guerrilla originating from BiH itself and Serbia(Skorpioni) - enter cities and villages and terrorize civilians. So, if you wish to point out that people's desire for freedom lead to war and that they are guilty for being killed and slaughtered as result of conscious act called referendum- don't you even dare to do that

 

Of course, it can pass only when you decide to present it that way and hide from casual readers and participants few major factors, Frozy .

1/ According to the constitution of the Ex Yu Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina (The 52nd amendment) borders and territorial status of the republic couldn't be changed unless 2/3 of the total of eligible voters vote in favor of secession. Requirements were not met and 62% of voters weren't sufficient for legality.

2/ Many Croats voted for a succession because they wanted to join Croatia in 2 practical steps -first to secure position out of Yu and than to succeed from BiH . Thus, we have those 62%...

 

Cease fire agreements were broke numerous times during conflicts! Are you from Bosnia?!?
Frozy, I've a question for you...
Before any armed conflicts in Bosnia took place, there was an agreement initially signed by Alija Izetbegovic (representing Muslims of Bosnia); Mate Boban (representing Croats of Bosnia) and Radovan Karadzic (representing Serbs of Bosnia). It was 'The Carrington-Cutileiro peace plan' which was providing to Bosnia and Herzegovina territorial integrity outside of Yugoslavia and only requirements were decentralization and power sharing on administrative levels trough separate ethnic districts. According to that plan Bosnian Muslims would have more territories (cantons) than they have today:


Why Alija Izetbegovic who initially singed agreement withdrew his signature from this plan?

Frozy, Macedonian security forces were attacked by Albanians, not the other way around.

Don't be childish, this is forum. I'm debating, not 'judging'!

 

I know...it must be the reason you lifted this dormant thread from God knows what page on this section of the forum, supported 'Dardanian's' insinuations and grabbing to my post (answer to him) .

 

Can you please provide more valid source as this one has warning that is going trough major editing.
For instance, Ali Pasha Tepelena (1740 – January 24, 1822) was an Albanian; although he was very brutal (too all nationalities and not only Albanians) there's nothing in his bio that would support any order of forceful conversion to Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Pasha

He-he-he...
And second, Skanderbeg was born on a 6th of May (not 17th January as you have written) .
I'm sure you know very well that my mistake of two years wasn't intentional .

 

Now I get it. But you are not Albanian?

 

This is the part I do not understand. Bosnians are not even half of the population, but 92.8% of the Bosnia and Herzegovina population wanted independence. As soon as they were independent, they started to kill each other. What a strange country is this?

 

it's not 98.2 % requirement was more than 50% and more than 50% wanted independence it means that it can either be 55,62,etc it doesnt necessarily mean 90 though i must agree,we are really weird nation

 

my family originates from all over the Balkans,which means: illyrian,slavic,macedonian,greek - origin

 

Not 98.2 %, 92.8 %. Wasn't this the result of the referendum in 1992?

At least you match into Europe this way ...

 

Illyrian means Albanian?

 

Well, Wikipedia also isn't such an reliable source. It is being revised , updated and anyone can have access in it! After Skenderbeg's death massive punishment conducted by Ottomans took place followed by conversion also.

Ali Pasha's origin is very confused also. Some claims his origin was born in a Turkish family in Asia Minor :
http://books.google.com/books?hl=el...of a Turkish family from Asia Minor."&f=false

'There was also a second group of emigrés from the Himarë region in Southern Albania, who left after the massacre of some 6000 people who refused to convert to Islam at the orders of Ali Pasha Tepelena." Read above if possible .


And I mixed the day of birth with his day of death ... but still didn't missed his year, although I don't blame you regarding the fact that he is our national hero.

 

only ignorant hicks limit term ilyrian on albanian

illyiricum was far bigger than Albania

but i don't deny that i have partially albanian origin

 

Aaaaha

 

Heh, WikiIslam, it even made me hate Islam
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/History_of_Jihad_Against_the_Turks
How the Turks fought against Jihad for four hundred years and finally gave up and embraced Islam, and later spreading Jihad into Anatolia (modern Turkey) and the Balkans up to Austria.

Anyways, the Ottomans were yes not quite fair towards non-Muslims, unfortunately, but not were so tyrant as Arab caliphates were. Look at former Arab caliphate territories, they all are Arabizated today. And look at Ottoman ones, now they all belong to its former owners. You guys were not forced into it, as I said otherwise all of other Christian-majority nations also would have been Muslims today so far they aren't. Those who converted to Islam because of the favourable status it grants, not sure if Ottoman Empire's main goal was "Lets go to Europe and make Albanians Muslims".