Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

Still no. Punishment works in that it corrects the behavior, but it doesn't teach why that behavior was bad. All that gets across when a child is punished is if they do something the parents deem wrong they'll be punished, it says nothing about why it was wrong.

 

One has to often stop the bleeding before you can save the patient.

 

Ask the "Bible-believing Christian"---- "Is infanticide every justsified? Can it be moral?"



If they say "No"....then quote 1 Samuel 15:3....and watch them flip-flop and say "Yes, it can be."

 

And the only way to accomplish that is punishment? No. There are statistics to support that non-aggression/non-punishment parenting is far better. It teaches people to raise their kids how they're supposed to, as if those kids will be functioning members of society. All punishment and abuse does is create mental handicaps for the kids when they are adults. This can be supported by the fact that spankings as a child can reduce IQ. But you're most likely to just respond with a one line answer so the effort is wasted here.

 

Do your multiple line answers make a better reply? I suspect not. Your repeated replies have had little to do with the nature of my post. None of my posts ever mentioned spanking, aggression, violence, or most any of the other things you keep wanting to address in your own posts. And neither did I suggest that punishment was the only way, or that punishment had to be any of the things you say it is.

You make it sound as though God and parents should all coddle and reward their children regardless of their behavior, as though all behavior deserves the same response. It is this liberal nonsense that has given us the empty minds we see in society today, and the societal decay resulting from it.

May I suggest that you start your own thread on parental upbringing, instead of hijacking my posts, and then twisting them to your own agenda. But I will leave with one more one line reply:

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom ... - Proverbs 9:10

 

Nice strawman which doesn't address anything in my post. In terms of god, they did way more in the bible than just not "coddling" his creation, and has done far from reward even good behavior. Parents made the choice to have kids, they should at least research how to do deal with them. Look up nonaggression principle, it's far from "liberal nonsense".

 

I think ours to be better than God's and of his followers.

But let's debate this God's ways versus our ways issue.

Please allow me to begin by setting a scenario.

Human sacrifice is evil and God demanding one and accepting one is evil.

Those trying to profit from that evil are evil. Do just a bit of thinking and you will agree.

Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?

In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

Regards
DL

 

What have you been reading?

Nothing I wrote.

Get the quote of your premise and we can discuss it.

But to give a quick answer to your idea.

African witches and Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr6gvtYrga8

Jesus Camp 1of 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

Death to Gays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuKLyGUHNE

Regards
DL

 

The issue was morality of the Gods and their religions.

Care to opine?

Regards
DL

 

So you think God creates fallen people.

Why would he do such a thing?

If you are thinking of fallen from Eden, you might wonder why Christianity reversed the more intelligent Jewis view.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/20/comparative-theodicy/

‘Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’

Regards
DL

 

If the theists were are that easily turned against him, then that shows more of a lack of thought than anything else.

Right?

Regards
DL

 

I hear you but most do not flip flop and just say God can do whatever he likes to us because he created us, Idiocy, yes, but that is what I mostly get.

Regards
DL

 

Any god that would condone slavery is unethical and immoral. Yahweh and Allah are human constructs designed to maintain certain groups in power.

 

I agree.

On a side note. You should remember, except for the abuse which was natural for ancient people, slavery was mostly what we would call welfare or the dole in todays language.

That was common up to the time Muslins started stealing slaves from Africa and turned slavery into a business.

Regards
DL

 

That's human nature. We should deal with that appropriately.

 

That just means we ignore them as they run away.

This is good as others see it and see that they cannot argue for their God and that that God is therefore not worthy of those who can think.

Regards
DL

 

Violence by large adult mother and especially fathers teaches kids about the authority which exists in a society.

A smack on the ass,... by a father, today, is missing in the 73% of the Black families that are now on Welfare.
And, we see how the bastard kids now oppose the policeman today

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But you, yourself, deny a creator even when science can support the idea in the Copenhagen Interpretation.
So how are you any better...?

 

The Father and the Son are one, both of the same Lordship if you will. So what the Son voluntarily did for us, the Father voluntarily did for us also, and vice versa. Yet, instead of honoring the Father and Son that sacrificed on your behalf, you revile them; and place yourself above them.

What does that say about your morality?

Have you ever read Genesis 22? John 3:16? They both tell the same story.

 

The deniers remind me of the spoiled brat who received a great gift from a great person, but because of the brat's own self-righteousness, he threw the gift to the wayside, and kicked dirt on it; thinking he needed nothing of it; never realizing that the gift was the greatest gift he could have ever had.

 

Truth is the image and the son of the ever unfolding Reality which is our god,... almighty.

Gen. 1:26 And God, (i.e.; Reality), said Let us, (i.e.; Truth and Reality, both), make man, (through the process of gradual evolution: [Gen 5:2]),.. Let us make man (capable of understanding Reality through the use of Truth), IN OUR IMAGE, (Reality and Truth): and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

It would depend on how the children are punished. If a parent punished a moment of disrespect or wrong behavior with lifetime imprisonment and torture in the basement, would you call that moral?

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Shall I provide links to Christian pastors calling for gays to be executed?

 

You're allowed to beat people on welfare so hard that they die the next day and that is okay?

 

How often does that happen? I suspect far less than the number of times that innocent children are killed in the womb for doing nothing more than existing. Do you call that moral?

 

How is it consistent that parents tell their kids it's not right to use violence against others, and then have violence used on them? Violence from a parent also tells the children that said authority will abuse its power instead of being reasonable or rational. It's also been demonstrated that hitting your kid also reduces IQ, which increases the perpetuity for violence.

 

Sorry, science and intellect has shown that primitive parenting tactics cause more harm than good. But hey, that's great for Christians, right? Keep the kids stupid so they'll believe the same intellectually vacant bull(*)(*)(*)(*) that their parents do.