Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

Well, that's for God to figure out. And you are wrong when you say "torture." Torture implies unjust punishments.

 

Which is exactly what it is, to any sane mind. Still waiting on a substantive answer from you, though I think it's in vane.

 

And yet God is not unjust.

I don't know what kind of answer you want. What kind of perspective are you looking for?

 

Allah is Lucifer.The angel that rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven.
He and the Nephilim have and do rule earth for the time being.Until they get cast into the lake of fire.I think that day may come in my lifetime.I was hoping it wouldn't.
However;The way things are going..I don't see how it's not coming soon.

 

As portrayed, an eternity of torture and suffering is by definition unjust. Looking for some intellectual honesty from you. But again, dodge ball king, not gonna happen from you.

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That's the same rubbish people were saying in the early days of Christianity.

 

Only you regard it torture.

 

The problem is partly about lack of proof. The bigger problem here is that you can not admit to yourself that there is doubt.

The reason that you do not want to admit doubt is because this risks eternal torture in the afterlife.

The reason fear based religions have been so successful is because of this aversion to questioning. You "must" believe or you risk the most horrible fate the mind can imagine.

You "must not doubt - must not question" because doing so risks eternal torture in the afterlife.

This evolution of this aspect of religious doctrine is a very powerful and sophisticated mind control technique. Those who internalize (believe) this doctrine of fear have this fear implanted deep into the sub conscious mind.

When the adherent comes across ideas that conflict with or question ingested doctrine, the "fear factor" kicks in automatically via the subconscious. The conscious mind of the adherent does not realize what is happening or why it is happening. All the adherent realizes is a fear response - this acts as a force from inside repelling them from thinking "bad thoughts" - thoughts that doubt, question or conflict with ingested doctrine.

What happens is that the adherent mistakes this internal repulsion and aversion to "bad thoughts" as a sign of the will of the God. They think is God creating this repulsion when in reality it is simply a function of belief in the fear of eternal torture doctrine which is implanted deep in their sub conscious mind.

The adherents then mistakes this internal response (revulsion and aversion - often accompanied by slight nausea in the pit of the stomach, light headedness, and other physical reactions) as "Proof" that the story is real.

This reaction is taken as proof that God is real and is that this internal experience proves God is real and that this reaction is the power of God at work.

This reaction, when taken as "Proof", serves to further reinforce ingested belief. This "proof" makes that belief stronger and embeds that belief deeper into the subconscious. It is then a vicious circle akin to a self fulfilling prophecy.

The stronger the adherent believes the more heightened the fear becomes. The greater the fear the stronger the response. The stronger the response the more the adherent believes.

It is not so much a preference rather than a logical imperative.

Most people adopt the religious ideas they exposed to as a child. Hindu's believe the Hindu stories. Christians believe the Christian story. Muslims believe the Muslim story.

The one thing in common of each of the aforementioned is "the fear factor". People are frightened into maintaining certain beliefs. In each case the "Proof" of God is based on the same or similar reaction to the fear of eternal punishment doctrine embedded into the subconscious mind of the adherent.

Based on this reaction - which is taken as "Proof", the adherent believes that the "Story" is true.

The logical dilemma is that each of these stories is different and they conflict with each other such that if one is true, the other can not be.

The logical imperative when two stories contradict is that at least one of the stories must be false.

If one of the stories is false then what that adherent thought was "Proof" is not really proof at all. It was just a reaction to the ingested ideology of fear.

"This type of knowing" that you claim as proof is exactly the same justification used by the other aforementioned religious adherents.

In order for your story to be true, the other must be false. This logical imperative is difficult to get around.

Even the fear factor response due to the ideology of eternal torture was "From God" one is still left with a big problem.

Just because the idea of eternal torture in the afterlife is true, does not mean that any other parts of the story are true.

This is a problem then because - what does one believe ?

 

I don't think it's a matter of if God is moral I think it's matter of peoples perception of a moral God or if he is moral to their standards.
Yahweh and Allah are not the same person or God but as for their morality in the end we can protest defend and explain their morality but in the end the eye of the beholder makes all the difference.

 

I wasn't born a Muslim, so that argument doesn't work with me.

 

pretty sure the people being tortured regard it as tortures as well.

 

How are they being tortured?

 

There is only one God

Allah is a perversion.

 

tor·ture


/ˈtôrCHər/


noun

noun: torture



1.


the action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain.

synonyms: infliction of pain, abuse, ill-treatment, maltreatment, persecution; sadism

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the muslim god is the same god of Abraham the jews and Christians worship.

 

Of course it does. One of the responses to "the fear factor" is denial. You are desperately grasping for straws and avoiding thinking about what you are saying rather than putting some serious thought into the issue.

One does not have to be born into a religion to become an adherent. It happens all the time.

One does not have to be born into a religious ideology to ingest the doctrine of eternal punishment in the afterlife.

Once ingested the fear response is embedded into the adherents subconscious. The adherent then mistakes that fear response as "Proof" that the story is true.

One of the responses - because the adherent believes that if they doubt or question doctrine they will be risking eternal torture- to facts and ideas which conflict with belief is denial and avoidance.

You claimed to know things you can not possibly know ( that a religious story is defacto true) on the basis of "this type of knowing".

You then turn around, in a desperate attempt to avoid reality, and deny the "type of knowing" that you previously claimed as truth.

 

Allah is God in Arabic. Next.

 

So much claptrap here. Just get no the point and ask me what you want. Jeez....

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That doesn't answer my question.

 

Torture does not imply unjust punishment.

Torture - the action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or other reasons.
Verb - inflict severe pain on.

Such desperation and disingenuous grasping at straws to deny reality. Anything to avoid "bad thoughts".

 

Do you know what "imply" means?

You seem to have a habit of projecting your childhood religious experiences.

 

...yes.
Allah can be applied to any of the false deities of paganism, as well.
But Muslims assume the word identifies the almighty described in the Bible.

They are wrong.
Christ told us that his father was the ever unfolding Reality which creates the Truth that Christ symbolized for us in 32 AD.
Christ went further, and said even we can symbolize Truth, too, if we do as he did when Muslims are cutting off our heads:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name, (i.e.; Truth, [John 14:6-12]):

 

Lol, Allah a pagan deity? Allah is defined as the One God whether you like it or not.

 

of course it does.

 

You made a ridiculous and nonsensical claim (you were not born into Islam) in a desperate attempt to avoid the truth and I refuted that claim

The truth is that you have ingested the doctrine of eternal torture in the afterlife.

This is not a question .. it is a statement of fact that you readily admit to.

That this doctrine lodged itself into your subconscious and created a fear response (described earlier) that you mistook for "Proof" is also a fact.

One that you are having trouble dealing with.

You have also completely failed to address logical imperative - that the response you claim as "Proof" for your story of God is the same response that people of other religions claim as "Proof" for their stories.

The logical imperative is that since the stories contradict each other .. the "Proof" claim has to be false in at least one instance.

Denial and avoidance ... run run run from the "bad thoughts"

 

LOL
You just described the whole idea of Christianity,...

It is when one recognizes that we live in Reality, and that Truth is the only mediator which can tell us what Reality actually is.

 

Is there justice in torture?

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Another block of crap. Dude, just ask your question and get over it. All it takes is several words and a punctuation mark at the end.

 

Allah, for the Muslims,... is one god,... the god of Force:

Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate, (The Koran), shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.