"Ahmadinejad: Iran is determined to eradicate Zionism"

Do you beleive that the Palestinians and arab world would rather also not be desroyed than accept reasonable peace? This particularly in light of - as you agree - the hatred that has always existed against jews.

It goes both ways. At least from where I sit.

 

It's actually the Zionist's agenda and actions that creates anti-Zionist sentiment and it did exist prior to the founding of Israel as the Zionists had already engaged in terrorism and coercion to force as much of the non-Jewish population out of Palestine as possible. Of note the violations of the civil Rights of the non-Jewish population by the Zionists that migrated from Europe was in direct violation of the British Mandate for Palestine.

As has been previously noted, and as expressed in the original OP article, Ahmadinejad is opposed to Zionism and not the nation of Israel. The references to Israel were added by the author of the article and were not contained in the translation of what Ahmadinejad actually stated.

 

That's why Iran has the largest and oldest Jewish population in the region..

 

I think you'll find that it's not the people of Pakistan that allow that so much as it is the government that does.

The people of Pakistan have a limited say in their government's leadership. Also, it's not as simple as us executing their citizens. They have quite a few terrorists among their rural regions.

 

I understand that that is your viewpoint.

The wikipedia page on anti-semtisism goes much further than that though and says:

"Extreme instances of persecution include the pogroms which preceded the First Crusade in 1096, the expulsion from England in 1290, the massacres of Spanish Jews in 1391, the persecutions of the Spanish Inquisition, the expulsion from Spain in 1492, the expulsion from Portugal in 1497, various Russian pogroms, the Dreyfus Affair, and the Final Solution by Hitler's Germany and official Soviet anti-Jewish policies".

Zionists the cause of all that hate? No, I submit that hatred of jews has always existed and will always exist.

I also beleive that Ahmanijad hates jews. The definition of zionism and nation of Israel tends to get blurry with many slipping and using jews and zionists interchangeably, reflecting their true views.

 

And what might you perceive their ' true views ' to be ? Anti-jewish ? Let's remember that an ******** is an ******** , not matter what the ********'s religion, and Zionism, by definition, is a political doctrine of ethnic- cleansing ********s. Whether they're jewish ********s or not has nothing to do with it.

 

You are being disengenous by conflating Judaism and jews with Zionists and Zionism. Not all jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are jews. In fact the vast majority of the world's Zionists are non-jews.

If the Iranian president hates jews as you claim, perhaps you might care to explain to this board why it is that outside of Israel, Iran has the highest population of jews in the ME, all of whom have equal political rights under the law?

 

Yes, there has been extensive hatred of Jews historically that is completely unrelated to Zionism. Perhaps what might surprise some is that the British Mandate for Palestine was to a limited degree based upon anti-Semitism as many Europeans wanted to rid themselves of the Jewish population. It appealed to them to send the Jews back to Palestine to get them out of Europe.

Personally I had no real problem with the British Mandate as it was written. It did not establish Palestine as a Jewish homeland but did invite Jews to migrate to Palestine and make it their home along with the resident population which included both Arabs and Jews. It was to be a shared homeland where the civil Rights of the existing population were not to be violated.

Unfortunately "Zionists" never intended to follow the Mandate and history shows that almost immediately they set a course to establish a Jewish State of Israel which would violate the civil Rights of the non-Jewish population. This is where the problem originated as the "Zionists" completely disgrarded the civil Rights of the non-Jewish population in the establishment of Israel. As history reflects there were elements of the Zionist movement involved in terrorism and coercion to force the non-Jewish citizens out of Palestine to establish Israel. Somewhere between 400K-700K left what became Israel, which was their homeland, and fled in fear as refugees. Israel, which has been controlled by the Zionists, for the most part refused to allow these individuals back to their homeland inspite of the 1949 Armistice and UNGA Resolution 194 that both included provisions for the return of refugees to their homes.

Since 1948 the "Zionist" controlled Israeli government has adopted policies of territorial expansionism and the forced eviction of non-Jewish residents and citizens from their land, homes and businesses. It is very reminiscent of the Nazi's actions related to the Jews in Germany and many have made that connection. What is astonishing is that Jews that had been the subject of discrimination and hatred would endorse the same type of policies towards another people.

Does Ahmanijad hate Jews? I don't know but I actually doubt it but others are entitled to their opinions. He's certainly never expressed that but he certainly has condemned the actions of the Zionist controlled Israeli government. Ahmanijad is a very well educated man and I've read many of his speeches and he is always explicit in condemning "Zionists" as oppose to Jews or even the nation of Israel. As we notice in the linked OP article the problem is that newswriters often insert "Israel" for "Zionist" and they aren't really the samething. Not all Israelis or Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are even Jews.

Zionism today reflects a political philosophy of conquest of Palestine for the Jews to the basic exclusion of all others. Will the Zionists allow a limited number of non-Jewish residents to be citizens of Israel? Absolutely so long as they don't present a political force that could potentially change Israel from a Jewish aparthied state into a secular government. Never will the Zionist controlled government allow immigration, even for those that have a rightful claim of citizenship based upon Jus Soli, of non-Jewish people that would have the political power to turn Israel into a purely secular government.

But perhaps I ramble too much as there is much background. My concerns are always related to the unalienable Rights of ALL People. Israel which is and has been contolled by "Zionists" has an extensive record of violating the unalienable Rights of the non-Jewish population of Palestine. It is that which I object to and I believe that objection is justifiable. I will never confuse "Zionist" with Israeli or with Jew as "Zionism" is a political philosophy which is not embraced by all Israelis or all Jews.

 

Yes, best estimate today is 25,000 down from about 80,000 immediately before the revolution. Its the largest, because the arab nations expelled all or nearly all of their jewish citizens.

But hey, we all know that the evil zionists attacked the peaceful arabs time and again, trampled on the civil rights and basically were complete pains in the but until they finally got what they wanted in 1948. We won't talk about the arab riots, the arab insurrection, the Mufti being a jew hating nazi or any of the acts of terror against the jews. Nahhh, that just muddies up a really good story.

We won't talk about the ethnic cleansing of jews from surrounding arab countries because it was only in retaliation therefore it was justified and not at all criminal. Only the jews are criminals.

And forgive me, but all this talk evil zionists is mostly a euphamism used by run of the mill jew haters. Gives them a wonderful way of demonizing jews without actually calling them that.

 

yes, "just get rid of them" was a significant rational.

A few facts wrong on this one old chap. Haganah was formed in response to the Arab riots in 1920. They were formed because it was self evident that the British weren't going to protect the jews and therefore the jews need to organize their own self defense. Perhaps you should examine history in a little more detail.

You neglect to mention that the arab terrorism against both the british and jews. You jest mention jewish terrorism against arabs, but we know that both the arabs and the jews regarded the British as enemies.

In 1948 the war of independence was waged. During that time, the zionist jews took the opportunity to force the evacuation of tens of thousands (if not hundreds) of arabs from their lands. In addition a whole bunch of arabs left voluntarily to get their families out of the war zone. Little did they realize that the victorious jews wouldn't let them back in.

Also incorrect. Israel gave back the sinai in 56. Israel offered to give back the west bank to jordan and the gaza to egypt. Both vehemently declined and the Khartoum declaration sealed the deal that there would be no deals.
I am not aware of any forced evictions of palestinians or Israeli citizens from their homes after 1948 and before 1967. do you have some reference?

Yes, they don't want a non-jewish majority. The Israelis want to ensure that Israel remains a jewish state. Now apparently this is a bad bad thing. Perhaps you can explain why this is so bad? Are you aware of any other evil country that limits and restricts immigration? Or do just the good ones do it?

Firstly its "inalienable rights" and unfortunately there is no such thing. Not even in america. That they violate the civil rights of an occupied people is outrageous. Never in history has a occupying force not granted equality and self determination to the occupied. Everyone seems to think that there is some equivalency between Israeli citizens and the occupied palestinian people. But it'd be a first in history if there was.

 

/Coughs...Hmmm and of course, you have evidence to support that claim....Nope, of course you haven't....Like most of the crap you come out with, you are unable to substantiate that claim, rather, it's yet another one of your hunches.

 

I could address the rest but I dont have time. I thought I'd just respond to the most incorrect points you made:

I am not aware of any forced evictions of palestinians or Israeli citizens from their homes after 1948 and before 1967. do you have some reference?
He was referring to the massive ethnic cleansing that took place by zionist forces within the founding of the Israeli state. This has been widely agreed to by modern historians, particularly the 'new historians' of Israel who have had extensive access to new government documents. These include Benny Morris, Ian Pappe and Avi Shlaim to name a few.

Um... Israel has an obligation to recognize the rights of Palestinians. If they dont, that's the same as denying the right to their own self determination. If it weren't for the UN Israel would not exist. And it is because of the UN in EXACTLY the same way that Palestinians are entitled to their own state.

 

Are you attempting to say that groups such as The World Zionist Organisation are demonizing jews ?

http://tinyurl.com/3rvrulw


Get real. Zionism is a political doctrine, not a religion- not even an umbrella for a religion. Christian Zionists must be falling about laughing at your implication.

 

You know the really interesting thing about the movement around zionism in the early days was numbered with many anti-statist Jews, who made up a very large group. They sought a binational state in Palestine that could allow all to live together harmoniously. Such adherents were widely found in the 40s notable examples being Martin Buber and Judah Magnes - the latter rightly stating that without approval by the people of the land of Palestine - Jews AND Arabs included, there could be no peaceful state, let alone a harmonious state of Israel. He like, others, emphasized that Judaism and the concept of zionism should be maintained as a cultural ideal - not a political one. Noam Chomsky is also of those original binational adherents opposed to the creation of a Jewish state, although he has developed his own views on the matter.

 

Exactly.

In fact I beleive that those guilty of anti-semitism in the old fashioned sense, don't even admit it to themselves (making it anti-semitism in the new sense ). Thing is whilst they claim that zionists are not jews, they let a reference to "jew" slip in every now and then and betray their true colours. Or they are more creative and mention khazars or the criminal nature of zionists (who are then referred to settlers) as if it were a genetic characteristic. All of this is very very thinly veiled anti-semitism.

Thing is it is so obvious except to them perhaps.

Of course jews haven't been welcome in arab countries and using Iran as a model of Jewish tolerance, is nothing short of laughable. Using Iran as an example of toelrance is, in of itself laughable. Germany has a large community of Iranian asylum seekers who have fled under the worst conditions.

 

Well,I'm a jewish teenager from israel who has come here to check out the image of israel overseas.Amazingly,when i went on the forum,my eye caught this thread.First of all,I must tell you a little about my historical father's story,his family immigrated to israel from Iran in 1964 as the iranian jews had felt obvious hatred of the domestic population.In most of the muslem countries,religious groups are all socially accepted because of faith in god and the jews got the same attention in the beginning of the new regime period.However,the problem deepened when the local habitants had found themselves without work in the wake of the jewish prospery. Basically they all began devising spiteful plans against the jews but knew it must be arcane and not public.The detest to jews increasingly intensified and left them with no a concrete choice except for a rapid move to the promised land called israel. All I wrote intends to show you all that Israel has acted greatly to keep the relationship with Iran stable but unacceptably faces harsh Iranian resistance.Therefore,there is nothing to stop the world from having a deep operation inside iran,in order to eradicate the evil sources.In the past,Israel and Iran have been good fellow and even held financial relations through the sea.Even though the obvious iranian hatred spreads,many of the iranian residents strongly oppose the sterness of their country.

 

/Coughs...Hmmmm, you mean a jew hater like Weizmann?

Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organisation, had, much earlier, set the scene for his attitude to German anti-semitism in a keynote speech in Berlin in 1912 when he said:

Each country can only absorb a limited number of Jews, if she doesn’t want disorders in her stomach. Germany has already too many Jews.

http://www.marxists.org/history/etol...dict/index.htm

Hitler himself could not have put it better.

 

How sad.. there were once 250,000 Jews in Iran as well as another 250,000 in Iraq and as many in Libya.. European zionism certainly screwed you folks over.

 

Ah, so you're a practicing neoZionist who wants Iran attacked ? Is that a correct appraisal of your first post ?

 

These Jews in North Africa, Persia and Mesopotamia had been there since 300 years before Christ and in some cases much longer.

They'd still be there if not for Zionism.

 

yes the Iranians have been saying this for a very long time

deep operation and foreign influences and spies working in Iran to topple its government

thanks for admitting this

It's something we all knew but it's nice to hear an Israeli admit it.

Syria is saying the same thing.

 

During world war 2,the top producer and supplier of Nazi Germany was Deutsche Farben Weapon Factory.One of the partners of this factory was US Grant Oil company and one of its owners was Rockafeller,simply a jew.American banks were legalizing the money of nazis and war made them richer.They earned millions of dollars out of it.One of the owners of these banks was a Bush.Father of George Bush and grandfather of George W Bush.They are all members of secret fascist groups and organizations.Who knows how many thousands of jews did Farben's weapons kill.I am sure if Israel gets destroyed,it will cause a jewish banker or the CEO of a global corporation to add more to their fortune.In 9/11 the jewish real estate invester and business man Larry Silverstein made billions of dollars out of WTC 7's collapse.So,who is more evil now? Iran or the so called liberators of the world who defeated the nazis?

 

Um, exactly what conference was Weizmann the keynote speaker in berlin in 1912?

Can't seem to find any credible source for this quotation. Of course you can find it on rense and the usual anti-semite hate mongering sites, but there doesn't see any CREDIBLE source.

Now why is that I wonder? I also wonder exactly where you get your information from - NOT.

 

I hate Rense and never quote or cite it..

I actually quoted it in Lenni Brenner, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators (Beckenham, Kent, 1983) p. 34.

Born into an orthodox Jewish family, Brenner shows how the Zionists collaborated with the Nazis:

http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-against-zionism.html#t4

 

1. Rockefeller wasn't a jew, he was a baptist.

2. the Bush patriarch did do business with the nazis but they ain't jews.

3. Larry Silverstein's insurance paid off for the three totally destroyed buildings because he happened to own the leases on the buildings. He would have made way more money buy running those leases in a matter of a few years.

What you think he put a big fat target on them with a big arrow saying "hit me here"?

Well, one outta three ain't a bad batting average if your playing baseball but if your trying to make a point on a discussion board 1 for 3 in the fact dept doesn't give your opinion much credibility.