Part 14 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Are you saying that god's plan failed?

 

As I have said many times I have always admit my mistakes and sins. You are demonizing yourself not me not any else. Are you a fundamentalist / If so then this answer why you are so conflicting in understanding Christianity.

You lied to yourself I only help you to understand what is a Christian and what is not.

This is what you said:
Quote Originally Posted by WanRen View Post
Nope, God didn't want Jesus to be killed God wanted to deliver and save man and man wanted to kill Jesus.
Yes I said that that is why God has been very clear from the very beginning He will send a redeemer to redeem us of our sins.

Yes again and because dying is the only way the human way so God became human to be with us, to make us understand that He share our humanity and that He will save us no matter what even if this mean that God has to become human to experience our pain and most of all experience death and in death we can defeat evil that is why thousands of Christian followed Christ foot step by reaching out to all the sinners.
So now I am assuming that you understand and accept that Jesus Christ is the Son of God by that verse alone God so loved the world that sent his only begotten son to die as a sacrifice to take away the sin of the world? Or you still going to deny it?

The primary message pf Christianity "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light" Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Redeemer, Our Lord and Savior. If you accept this then you are a Christian do you or are you a Christian?

I ask you again, the primary message pf Christianity "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light" Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Redeemer, Our Lord and Savior. If you accept this then you are a Christian do you or are you a Christian?

 

Yes I have learn the primary message of Christianity "That God sent his only begotten son to die for the sin of the world, Jesus Christ is the Redeemer, Our Lord and Savior" that is why I am a Christian do you accept this and are you a Christian?

I don't have to and never have been making things up about the Bible it is a mortal sin to do so that is why I am here to refute and rebut all your false claims, distortions about the Bible and Christianity.

I have learn the history of Christianity and Theology in general and I would suggest the same to you that since you have learnt the history of Christianity you should then stop distorting about Christianity unless your reason of learning is to distort Christianity. Just like most Muslim Imams they are very well versed with the Holy Bible most of them memorize the Bible verse by verse unfortunately they only memorize not educate and their purpose on that is to use the Bible against us Christians. That is why Christians have to be on the guard for this kind of deception are the most dangerous ones.

I don't need to put words in God's mouth, God's Words are already in the Bible the Bible that you chose to misquote and misinterpret.

 

You seem to have a good math understanding as to how many Hebrews there were? If there were that many men 600,000 this confirm then with the slavery of Hebrews by the Egyptians because it will take that many men to build all the pyramids and other infrastructure of Egypt. And that many Hebrews 2,000,000 confirm with Egypt's concern of the growing population of the Hebrews out numbering them by 1 to 10.

I agree too.

Slavery has been the practice since the dawn of time and Egypt's rise to power would include the slavery of conquered people. The Hebrews who first arrived in Egypt were not treated as slaves it would be later Egyptian leaders notice the growing number of Hebrew disproportionate to Egyptian population at the same time the need for labor to build and sustain Egypt's infrastructure this include building of monuments such as pyramids.

That is a possibility no argument from me on that.

The Hebrews finally did after several months of running away from the Amalakites and the reason is that the Hebrews started to train and learn how to fight as a cohesive army and this could be due to some of the Hebrews having Egyptian military training or background. The Hebrews were in desperate situation and desperation is a good source of motivation to fight fiercely for your life.

I agree on that too.

Wars was a way of life back then every nation had to fight to defend their kingdom and part of defensive strategy is to expand. David understood this in fact Israel was surrounded with many hostile tribes and David wage wars against them at the same time he also make peace with some of them but David's war in nothing compare to the empire established by Syria, Philistines, Egyptians, Greeks, Persians or Romans.

Moses was part of the Pharaoh's inner circle he was well educated this would include in military science.Joshua became Moses right hand man and it would be practical to assume that Moses taught Joshua Egypt's military science. And as I agree with you that chances are there were many Hebrews who were part of Egypt's military but left and join the Exodus with the mainstream Hebrews to the Promise land and this group of ex-Egyptian-Hebrew soldiers will form the main core and eventually other Hebrew men will start learning to fight like warriors.

On the contrary I have.

That is fair. And if we were to comment outside of the Bible history would confirm that there were Hebrews in Egypt and that the nation of Israel came about from people ethnically from that region to become Israel through wars and conquest.

 

There is no 'Satan' in the Tanakh (OT). The Jews use the word 'Adversary'. Satan is a Christian idea. Read this from a Rabbi because, though I have told you this in the past, you don't obviously believe me.

http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-2566/the-jewish-view-of-satan/?p=2566

Still I guess you'll say the Rabbi is misinterpreting his own beliefs and scripture. lol

Nearly forgot. In the book of Job the Hebrew scriptures use the Jewish term 'adversary'. And also in other places for men/beings who oppose God.
Anyone can be an 'adversary'.
But then 'Job' is just a theological discussion, not real

 

"your not interpreting this correctly" is a form of denial allows the them to avoid facing reality unless some reason is given as to why the interpretation is incorrect or why one interpretation is correct over another. Notice that rarely is any reason given so its just a denial mechanism. "Thought stopping process"

Then when back is against the wall and logical violation is clear they either just do not respond or respond with gibberish that does not relate.

Mitt is really stuck on this one. He claims: 1) "God created everything that exists" and 2) "God did not create Satan"

Clearly if Satan exists, and God created everything that exists, 2) is incorrect.

Then we have WanRen denying the central premise of Christianity (God sent his only begotten son to die for the sin of the world) by saying that "God did not want Jesus to Die)

Every Christian believes agrees that Gods purpose for sending Jesus was so that he would die according to scripture. The Jewish messianic prophecy is that of a dying God.

So WanRen denies the central premise of Christianity and then runs around accusing others "your not a Christian, your not a Christian".

 

How was God going to save Man....if Jesus wasn't killed? And if there was "no way" that Man could be saved WITHOUT Jesus being killed....then by extension God wanted Jesus to be killed to save Man.

Basic logic.

- - - Updated - - -

So why aren't the "Bible writers" "dubious"?!?!?!? Were they not Men?

 

If you know that the will of God was for his son to die. Why would you say this ?

Which is it. Was it Gods will that his son die or not.

What have I said that is false. If you are going to accuse someone of lying then state what it is.

All I am doing is correcting your distortion.

You are the one distorting Christianity by putting words into scripture that are untrue. I am not the one that claimed "God did not want is son to die"

I am however the one that pointed out the fact that "Christian theology" states that it was Gods will that his son die.

If you do not need to put words in Gods mouth then why do you continue doing it.

What did I misquote and misinterpret ? This is another one of your lies that you hope will help you avoid the fact that have put words in Gods mouth that do not exist in scripture.

 

According to Scripture God's will was that Jesus be killed.

What are you saying here. Was it Gods will to send a redeemer to redeem us from our sins by dying or not ?

How did I lie in any way? I am not the one that denied that it was Gods will that Jesus die. You are.

How is my understanding conflicted ? I understand scripture clearly - It was Gods will that his son die to redeem the sins of the world.

If you wish to admit your mistake then do so. Was it Gods will that his son die or wasn't it ?

 

I'm betting that now WR will attempt to slice a "semantic difference" between "God's will" and "God's wants/desires".

One that will prove both illogical...and humorous to read.

Should also be another case of a Christian saying "God was hamstrung by His own rules" in the matter of Salvation....e.g. "God couldn't save Mankind without killing Jesus because God had made it a Rule that God couldn't save Mankind without killing Jesus!"

 

Estimated population of Egypt at the time was around 5,000,000, so the Egyptians still outnumbered the Israelites, and were in the dominant position.

Slavery in Egypt was not as we think of it today. Not until Ptolemy. We know this by documents and archives.

How could 2,000,000 people with flocks and goods run away for months from marauding warriors?

Attack is the best form of defence, but to conquer a country that had taken care of his mother and father when David was 'dethroned' for a time, and a country he was partly descended from? Not very grateful. And the towns and city states way to the north, in the desert, were of no threat to him. Only one city state leader defied him at the start, and he took the city. It was only later that they started to rebel. Had they been left alone to start with they would have been no trouble.

I don't assume that Moses would have been trained in Egyptian warfare just because he was in the Egyptian court. While Pharaoh led his troops into battle as the Pharaoh/god, orders would likely come after consultation with advisers. Of course the victory was always given as that of the Pharaoh.
David is given credit for others victories during his life.

Their is nothing to confirm the Hebrews were ever in Egypt, and none of it makes sense, except in terms of Jewish thinking.

It was sensible of Jacob to go into Egypt where there was corn. I guess many others did so.
Many generations later Elimelech would take Naomi and their sons into Moab to escape the famine across the river in Palestine. That's how David became part Moabite. Then Naomi returned with Ruth.

BUT why 400 years in Egypt?

After the famine is over in Palestine the family could have moved there, multiplied there to 2,000,000 and taken over the country peacefully. Actually that's what I think happened. They were never in Egypt, just a tribe that grew and took over Palestine.

Well we agree on a few things.

 

LOL I was thinking the same. (semantics) It was Gods will but it really wasn't.

 

And round and round and round you go. Where it stops, well it will never stop. He is to good at obfuscation. But not able to do it purposely.
Fake christian. He only wants to make christians look silly. And it is wrong of him to do so.

 

I agree that these two definitely give Christianity a bad name but I don't believe they intend to do this. Fundamentalist doctrine uses some fairly sophisticated mind control techniques.

Fundie doctrine paints a "Black vs White, God vs Devil, Good vs Evil" story. Anything that is cult doctrine is good. Anything that contradicts cult doctrine is Evil.

Adherents are taught that Satan is out there trying to trick them and if Satan wins they will roast in hell for an eternity.

They truly believe this which is why they will seek to demonize people and ideas that disagree with any tenet of their belief. It is Satan trying to trick them.

The doctrine is "Black vs White" if any tenet of their dogma falls, the whole structure collapses. Having even one small thing in their belief system shown to be wrong collapses the whole = rotting in hell for eternity. This is why they will fight so hard for even the smallest point.

They do not want to rot in hell and so will do anything to avoid facing the possibility that even the smallest tenet of cult doctrine could be wrong. Justifying baby killing for example. Anything to fight the Devil.

This form of denial and demonization is part of what are termed "thought stopping techniques".

If you are interested google Steve Hassan “combatting cult mind control”. He was inducted into the moonies and now spends his life as an exit counselor. He tells stories about how he too would defend atrocities in order to avoid having his beliefs contradicted.

He describes things called “thought stopping techniques” are intentionally implanted into adherents by destructive cults to help them avoid thinking about anything that would show any error in cult doctrine.

Cult doctrine must be perfect because it is from God. Any error in cult doctrine is impossible and so those that point out logical inconsistencies must be under the influence of the Devil.

 

"God didn't want Jesus to be killed...but it was God's will that Jesus be killed."????

 

Exactly WR! Good response! Here is a guy not making any sense, he says you are avoiding answering questions but the fact is you are answering them just that he refuses to accept them.

He misinterprets what he reads, or what others say, he is also unaware that his questions are being answered...lol

He must be intoxicated somehow or perhaps is dealing with mental issues.

 

Maybe you should tell him how a normal brain functions WR...lol

 

I would say that someone who justifies killing babies is dealing with mental issues.

I would also claim that someone who says "God created all that exists" and then turns around and says "Satan exists but God did not create Satan" has mental issues.

Care to guess who said that ?

 

ROFL Someone with normal brain function has no trouble figuring out that:

1) If God created all that exists and
2) Satan exists

Then God created Satan as Satan is part of "all that exists"

Don't you agree Mitt ?

 

Exactly WR! Good response! These guys act like they have great command of the English language yet they can't even interpret Scripture correctly written in the English language...lol

You and I are interpreting correctly, it must be we have a greater command of the English language than they have...eh WR?...lol

 

Good post WR! The 2nd coming of Christ is when God will intervene. When will that be? Nobody knows, only God knows.

 

He will answer you in about a year.

 

What don't you understand about free will? God gave us humans as well as the angels He created free will. He didn't make us puppets/robots. We can choose our own course.

In other words we have the ability to choose to do what is evil or what is righteous.

It would be incorrect to believe that God created Satan with sin already present in himself. God is holy and does not create anything that is contrary to His own nature (Psalm 86:8–10, 99:1–3, Isaiah 40:25; 57:15).

So, while it is correct to say God created Satan, it’s never correct to say that God created the sin within Satan. Satan chose his own course (Isaiah 14:13). God never causes sin (James 1:13), even though He has created a world where sin is possible. Some day God is going to put an end to Satan and all sin (Revelation 20:10) by confining him and his minions to everlasting punishment.

Read more click on this link to get a thorough explanation: http://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-create-Satan.html#ixzz2vt1Sp665

 

He has adequate English skills and so it's a non-issue. So the issue is why are you making something an issue when it's clearly not an issue? In other words what's your problem?

That's just your opinion that his understanding is limited, in my opinion his understanding is excellent, I mean he is interpreting Scripture correctly, the way any practicing true Christian should be interpreting it.

He knows he is understanding it better than non-believers such as yourself when you don't agree with him in the correct interpretation of Scripture.

WanRen doesn't contradict the true nature of God, we Christians all know that God does not interfere with our free will.

Guys like you contradict the true nature of God when you insist that God directly hardened Pharaoh's heart, in other words took away Pharaoh's free will.

WanRen has told you that you misinterpreted Scripture by you insisting that God hardened Pharaoh's heart.
He has told you numerous of times that you are wrong because that is not the correct interpretation, the correct interpretation is that Pharaoh's heart was hardened by himself because he was an evil, stubborn man being the ruler of an evil oppressive empire of the nation of Egypt.

So no, you can't come on here with your bull about WanRen's lack of English skills and make it an issue of his understanding of Scripture.

In my view, I see he has adequate skills in the English language, enough so that he fully understands and interprets Scripture correctly. It is you and your fraternity of non-believers who are lacking English skills that inhibits you all from interpreting Scripture correctly.

 

Does a normal brain spew out , "god died, god never dies, god died, god didn't die, god died, god didn't die??

Answer: No.