Part 22 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

MittRyan?

I'm still waiting on a clarification. To re-state-

"I am referring to observant Jews who do not believe Jesus was the Messiah, but keep to the Torah....such as those who form Judaism across the world and in Israel today.

Do they go to Hell?"

 

I really don't know why Incorporeal likes your post. He wants proof for everything, and you can't provide any proof of heaven and hell, therefore no proof you're going there. Perhaps he just likes agreeing with you.

Now an athiest would say that if you say that you are going to heaven on the authority of the Bible, then Jews can also say that for the book of Revelation tells us so. Christians also said so when writing the book of Hebrews.

 

Haven't you figured it out?

If you are a fundamentalist Christian and agree with Incorporeal....he likes your posts and makes ZERO demands for "proof"....because that's what he believes and he needs no proof.

If you disagree with Incorporeal.....he demands "proof", but will accept none that you give him, because it would go against what he believes.


As well, if you state something that Incorporeal agrees with....he accepts it as "fact" even if it's just the poster's opinion.

If you say something that Incorporeal disagrees with.....he dismisses it as "just your opinion".

 

Boy do you have it all wrong. Inc never offers up proof, for the only proof he has is between his ears.
It is everyone else that has to offer up proof. Trolls only obfuscate.

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One of them even changes the time frame. 5-7K yeas ago. When the bible lineage puts it 4500 yrs ago at best. But in reality, 4500, 5000, or 7000 yrs is a nanosecond in the universe time frame.

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you have to like your own posts, doncha?

 

And so far modern science has agreed that once upon a time this earth experienced a global climatic disaster that wiped out the entire dinosaurs, change the geographical features and the after effects was a re-evolution of smaller none Jurassic creatures and the coming of modern man. Today scientist are warning humanity of impending global disaster once again of Biblical proposition if humans do not stop corrupting and abusing this planet.

 

It is not about Inc liking my post it is about he accepts facts and history and the fact is heaven and hell does exist life after death does exist in fact many atheist and agnostic believe in it in their one way the only irony is they can't seem's to agree really which is it.

 

If I may, base on Judaism only the chosen people (Jews) who follow Judaism will go to heaven.
Any observant Jews who do not believe Jesus is the Messiah who ask Jesus to accept them will be in heaven.

 

The last era of the dinosaurs was the Cretaceous....not the Jurassic.

Also the geographical changes were already underway before the K-Pg Extinction event....Pangaea had already broken up.

There is no relationship between a cometary impact nor the continental drift 65,000,000 years ago....and the legend of a world-wide Flood occurred 5000 years ago. The first has evidentiary theory behind it....the second has no evidence and is based on one mythos of an Eastern Mediterranean herding tribe.

 

Clairfication, please.

You say Jews who "follow Judaism" will go to Heaven. A Jew who asks Jesus to accept them is a "Christian".

So a Jew who follows Judaism and does NOT accept Jesus...still gets into Heaven?

 

According to who ?

 

Not just "proof", but proof that meets the definition of proof "evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept the assertion as true." You see, holding myself to that same standard, I KNOW that I cannot offer such a 'PROOF'...a proof that will compel the mind of any reader of this forum or the world for that matter. That is why I have previously stated that I am not attempting to compel your mind (or that of anyone else) to accept anything. All you have shown and argued is the existence of what you call evidence... however that so-called evidence is only evidence that you have interpreted to be what it is. Therefore the interpretation of that evidence (which you have offered) is subjective and is potentially tainted by your own private biases and prejudices (likes and dislikes).

 

No, you believe that there is no such thing as "proof" that could compel YOU to accept an assertion that YOU don't already hold as true. If you believe something...it is "proven". If you disbelieve something, there can be no "proof" that would change your mind.

That...is your definition of "proof", Incorporeal.

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As I asked, isn't a Jew who asks Jesus to accept them....a Christian?

 

A fact is something that can be objectively demonstrated. When has heaven, hell, or life after death ever been objectively demonstrated?

 

More presumptions on your part. To show evidence of your presumption being incorrect regarding what I believe, please provide a complete list of all of my beliefs. Leave one out of the list or include one that is wrong, and you have then shown the readers that you are speaking through ignorance of the subject matter.. and that subject matter is me and my beliefs. Also a failure to list any of those beliefs or to make an excuse as to why you cannot make that list, is also evidence of your NOT KNOWING what you have spoken about.

Wrong again. That definition is public information found at www.tfd.com/proof It is a socially acceptable definition of the term 'proof' and is the primary definition listed at that dictionary for that term.

As I said... ask the ONE that would have the absolute correct answer and that ONE is not a mortal man.

 

Consider this too.....people don't have "faith" in facts. A fact is a fact, it's accepted knowledge, not faith or belief. You don't have "faith" that the Sun exists, you have knowledge that it exists. It's a fact.

So in saying what he believes is "fact"....WanRen....is denying faith.

 

I am asking MittRyan....and WanRen is also offering his view (which according to himself are based on "facts".....oddly, you never demand proof of those "facts" from him???).

MR claims to have answers to Tough Questions and the authority to answer them correctly in line with not only Christian dogma....but the authority of God Himself.

So according to his own belief in his authority on the matter....I await MittRyan's "authoritative" response to my question about the fate of observant Jews who do NOT believe Jesus is the Messiah.

And WanRen's response to that question about Jews and going to Heaven as well.

 

Another one misusing the word 'fact'. There is no evidence in the geological record of a catastrophic worldwide deluge.

 

If the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus were atonement for the original sin of Adam & Eve, then isn't the literal existence of Adam & Eve just as crucial to Christianity as the literal existence of Jesus?

 

What are you talking about? The Bible tells us that man was destroyed at the flood - except for Noah and his family. Are you telling me this happened 65,000,000 years ago? Modern man will not start to evolve for at least another 64,500,000 years

Of course the earth has had disasters, no one denies that. But Noahs flood - no.

 

LOLOLOL..

 

You know absolutely NOTHING about Judaism. I've already told you about the Noahide code. Gentiles can go to heaven this way.

Jews have a different belief concerning themselves. It's one of Rambams 13 articles of faith. Judaism is about living THIS life, doing Mitzvot/Mitzvah
(good works) out of love, not duty. They don't concern themselves much with the after life.
In simple terms when they die they go to a place where they consider the way they have lived and show remorse for wrong. Then they go on to one of 3 'heavenly' places. Those who have been evil either live eternally in remorse, or their soul is destroyed.

There's more to it but it would only confuse you even more.

 

On the contrary. People of faith do believe the facts stated in the 'faith'. What are the facts? Something believed to be true or real. See: www.tfd.com/fact definition 2.c.

Also:

"faith (fth)n.1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs."

 

No, you are not understanding what I said. I did not mention anything about facts. It can only be a fact to a person if say for example God revealed Himself directly to me and with His divine powers proved to me everything that He told us was true. Then it would only be a fact to me but to no one else.

We believers don't believe because we have facts, I can't say everything concerning the Bible is nothing but facts. If I do that then every Tom, Dick and Harry out in the woods of the non-believers world would then ask me to prove that everything is a fact. I couldn't say anything to prove anything...are you following me? Even if I was to say well God revealed Himself to me and He proved it to me...still that's not going to persuade anyone that I have indeed proven everything to be factual.

We believers believe in God because of our faith in Him. We have absolute faith and trust in Almighty God the Creator! He has given us His best selling book of all time the Holy Bible, He has revealed Himself to us through our Lord Savior Jesus Christ. There is established historicity here, now the question becomes do you believe it or not? From the looks of things most refuse to believe it.

No wonder our Lord Savior Jesus Christ once said, "You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it."---Matthew 7:13-14 NLT

Again I don't think you quite got it. I did not mention that it can be anything one wants it to be...where have I said that?...oh wait I know what it is...you are doing what you do best...you have misinterpreted me....right?...lol

 

Ref. Post #48: How can you believe in something if you have no evidence that it might exist? There's zero evidence of any kind that your favorite deity exists. And even people who profess to believe in your favorite deity believe in their own unique version of it and not the one that you believe in. So in the end it's nothing but a self-delusion.

 

Hey Mitt. Remember... that definition of 'fact' applies to everyone. If a person believes something to be true or real, then definitively it is a fact to that person who is believing it to be a fact.
Otherwise,,, good post.