South Africa files genocide case against Israel at International Court of Justice over Gaza war

So, you think you are so righteous you can demand answers? IF you had read my response for something besides a way to dodge it, you would have seen that I stated that in trying to solve one problem, the Balfour decision created others. That was only one of a continuous string of bad acts.

You kind of missed the part where the land has been stolen repeatedly over thousands of years. It was the Ottoman empire before the British empire, and a dozen others back through history.
Right doesn't start when you say it does. The land was stolen from the Jews too. Do some homework for a change.

 

Well, you refuse to answer directly for some reason but your answer is pretty clear. You can provide nothing the Palestinians did do deserve the Balfour agreement. That makes what happens to them as a result an injustice.

You try to justify this injustice by claiming the British were only trying to end the cycle of wars in the region. There is absolutely no evidence of this.

The primary reason for the Balfour declaration is given in the Peel report.

https://content.ecf.org.il/files/M00300 - PeelCommissionFullReport.pdf

The primary reason was to unite the "World Jewry" to the "allied" cause. (Wording of the Peel Report - not mine. Yes, the British report literally refers to the Jews of the world as an international organization manipulating the world in the background.)

All Jewish sects believe they lost and were exiled from Israel for cause. The Israelites disobeyed God, worshipped other gods, and perpetrated injustice. You can read about it all in the Bible. In fact, Biblical Jews believe God had a hand in throwing them out of Palestine. The Bible very clearly states the Biblical Jews obtained the land through genocide and ethnic cleansing.

As you have already agreed through silence that Palestinians did nothing to deserve the Balfour agreement, the situations are completely different. One group lost the land through no fault of its own, while the Biblical Jews deserved their fate and the Biblical Jews admit that they deserved their fate.

Ok, I'll respond to your other stuff.

Wow! Hate Islam much? Now if you look at my many former posts on Islam, I have not been a fan. However, everything I've posted against Islam is based on fact and reality.

What you've written is nowhere in Islam. Where did you get it from? What you wrote makes no sense from a historic perspective. The Yemenite Jews would never have survived from well over a thousands years under Islamic rule if what you wrote is true.

Sorry, what you wrote is silly.

These phone calls have long been known to be fakes. First, Hamas doesn't use phones, they use handheld radios. Second, Hamas doesn't speak Arabic with an Israeli accent.

On the contrary, Netanyahu does in fact state that all the Palestinians should be killed, including women and children.

The Amalekite reference refers to the time when Saul slaughtered all the Amalekites, including women and children.

Greed was likely the primary reason for Medina to attack Khaybar, but the stated reason was that Khaybar was plotting to attack Medina.

Hate really has nothing to do with it and is just a motif you've invented. The rest, I won't repost but similar things can be found on websites for racial supremacy. I'm not going to get into an argument over which ethnicity/race is best.

Ok, this post is long enough. I'll respond to your other long post in the next post.

 

Clearly you don't if you think this attack was anything but a declaration of war

 

Hamas are absolutely terrorists. Thier attack was demonstrative of that.

 

As I've already pointed out in the previous post. This is simply not true. The Balfour Declaration was made to unite "World Jewry" to the "allied" cause. (Peel's wording - not mine.)

I am not in favor of the Palestinians having a their own state.

None of the plans provided them with a state - they were all empty promises at best or ways to further subjugate them at worse.

They want to live in their land and not steal someone else's land. This is not a big ask. They have compromised enormously. Remember, Palestinians are the ones having injustice imposed onto them.

Palestinians living in Palestine. Wow, who'da thunk?

You do realize Israeli's and Jews are not the same thing?

Azerbaijan

Jews lived peacefully in many Arab and Muslim countries before Israel came into being. Israel had a problem in that most of the Jews did not want to go to Israel even after the Holocaust. They wanted to go to the U.S. or stay in Europe. The U.S.S.R. was not going to let Jews from Russia emigrate. So, Israel started to intimidate other countries into forcing their Jewish populations into moving to Israel.

The cause was Israel - not Islam.

Israel was very intolerant of the Arab Jews - even going so far as to steal their children.

https://jewishstudies.washington.ed...ped-children-activism-yemenite-babies-affair/

Israeli "tolerance" in action.

What you wrote here is not based on reason or facts. We've already agreed that an injustice is being forced onto the Palestinians without just cause. This is the cause of the Palestinian resistance. And you don't seem to know enough to know that there are Palestinian Christians.

As already mentioned, this phone call is a fake.

Never happened.

Actually those Hieroglyphics you refer to was referring to Libyans - not Israel. They were referring to a people and not a place. "biblical archeologists" are not the best interpreters of Egyptian Hieroglyphs and are obviously biased.

I would agree. I would first say let go of your hate of Palestinians and Islam.

Oh boy, the white supremacist mentality springs up all over again.

Islam is not a monolith. Israel is targeting and bombing the best educated in Gaza and the West Bank. So yes, your chance of succeeding in life drops phenomenally low after a 2,000 pound bomb is dropped on your head. And you have to be alive to get a Nobel prize. And you have to be able to visit Sweden which Israel won't allow. It's not rocket science.

 

The only people who did that here is Hamas.

 

Not when it's Hamas hiding behind them. That is 100 percent on hamas.

 

This thread IS NOT about the Balfour Declaration. That no longer exists. The issues in Gaza are not about it either.

It's really about the people who think that Israel and Jews have no right to exist unless they are nice guys and submit to aggression peacefully.

A man comes into your house, and punches you in the nose. You start to strike back, but he says- You can't hit me, I'm wearing glasses.... So you don't. Then, he punches you again, and says...You can't hit me, I'm wearing glasses....

Hamas is using their own civilians in the same way- and those civilians are voluntarily in that position. The method also collects suckers who think they work the same way as the glasses.

When you start seeing Israeli troops butchering babies and bragging about it, let us know.

 

AS for the people who think criticism is always racial- WRONG. As for the people who think all people are equally valuable- WRONG.

Anyone, of any race or national origin- can be an honorable, respectable person; a valuable person.
It is what people do, what they make themselves to be that determines whether they are treasure or trash to the world. They determine that value by how they live and contribute to their society and world.
While that is done individually, it reflects on any association of people with common values and characteristics and determines how that entire group will be seen. That does not mean there aren't exceptions; it means the honorable person who is in one of those groups will have to find a way to demonstrate he is the exception. That is where their attitude and behavior must be recognized- as an individual.
The attitude and behavior of the group however will determine the reputation of the group, and that will reflect on every person associated with it. In many groups, the moral people would choose to leave. In religion, that's not so easy

Given the abuse of journalism and truth today, many people believe things that aren't true- both good and bad. Truth is becoming hard to find.
But you have to be very gullible to look at the history of any group where the same aggression and mindset continuously demonstrates evil or lack of value- and ignore it or defend it.

The history of Islam for example, and the way it is consistently a source of conflict determines how we think of it.
. It's prejudice against anything not Islamic is ever-present. When the attitude of Islam changes the conduct of leaders and that migrates down to its people, the image of Islam will change.

About 30 years ago, the Ayatollah Khomeni was the ruler in Iran. A British author, Salmon Rushdie, wrote a book, called The Satanic Verses. The Ayatollah was offended, so he issued a "fatwah", meaning he put up a multi-million dollar bounty for killing Rushdie. The leadership has changed hands many times since- but that fatwah is still there. An international assassination ordered by a nations leader - and supported by following leaders- because he read a book and felt offended. Imagine a president of the United States or any civilized nation doing that.

In Afghanistan, they just limited education for girls to the sixth grade. In general, a Muslim woman's worth is one-half what a man's is. That's religious policy, literally imposed today. If children are disobedient in certain ways, parents may do an "honor killing" to get rid of them. Many values are cultural, and the world generally accepts most as normal. These things are not cultural, they are atrocities that are normalized in the Islamic religion. The same is true in the hatred of Jews- it's embedded since the beginning of the Islamic religion and taught as normal and proper today, to the children in that religion.

In an honest world, or the mind of an honest man- people are what they make themselves, and that is the product of what they do- not their color or origin. Groups as well build their reputation by what the group does. It's not only reasonable but accurate and necessary to connect those in a group to the reputation of the group. So long as the perception of these people and groups is related to actions, it's not unfair. unfortunately, what's fair or right doesn't matter to a lot of people.

The conflict in Gaza can't be resolved by one side. Unfortunately, it won't be resolved by the extermination of Hamas either, just paused. The violence may end temporarily, but the motivation behind it is much deeper.

 

"The facts relied on by South Africa in this application and to be further developed in these proceedings establish that — against a background of apartheid, expulsion, ethnic cleansing, annexation, occupation, discrimination, and the ongoing denial of the right of the Palestinian people to self- determination — Israel, since 7 October 2023 in particular, has failed to prevent genocide and has failed to prosecute the direct and public incitement to genocide."

The background is part of the application to the ICJ by South Africa. You are the one who brought up ancient history and now you're complaining about my bringing up something less than 100 years ago?

"No armed attack on a State’s territory no matter how serious — even an attack involving atrocity crimes — can, however, provide any possible justification for, or defence to, breaches of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (‘Genocide Convention’ or ‘Convention’),1 whether as a matter of law or morality."

October 7 and what may or may not have happened doesn't matter in this application. Do you want to continue this what this thread is and is not about? All that matters is what Israel has done.

I've seen it. I can't show you the pictures because of the rules of the forum. But there are tons of them and you f can find them if you want.

BTW, I can't find the same for Palestinians.

 

>>> No- not complaining because you brought ithe Balfour decision up. Telling you that you can't base your total conclusion on a single incident out of the multitudes over history- and for that matter, one made by the Brits, not the Israelis.

>>> No- you have not. You may have bought some bogus propaganda, but that doesn't make it legit. If you are going to claim Palestinian children died in the combat zone when their families refused to evacuate- that would be true. And the fault would be their parents and Hamas, as sure as if they had tied their kids to the railroad track.

Hamas appreciate your defending them, I'm sure.

 

Like Israel.

This is the point of South Africa's application.

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

I don't believe people should be killed based on speech. But Israel has done that repeatedly and most evilly.

Very recently, Rafaat Alareer was specifically targeted and murdered by Israel. So far, over 100 journalists have been killed by Israel who specifically targets them. Israel assassinated Shireen Abu Akleh, an American journalist. Israel also assassinated Folke Bernadotte.

The U.S. tends not to directly kill people who speak out and uses the slow torture method instead - see Julian Assange.

Lifta was a small Palestinian town of 2500 near Jerusalem. The Palestinians had proudly gathered their money together to build and run a brand new girls school in 1945. In 1947, the Israelis machine-gunned the town and proceeded to blow up the buildings causing those who survived to flee.

Afghanistan would never have been ruled by the Taliban if it weren't for the U.S.

The ends justify the means - a standard Satanic belief.

You judge people individually. You can judge organizations such has Hamas, the PLO, the U.S. government, the FBI, Israel, etc. Judging people based on race, however, is wrong.

Judging people based on their religion is done based on religious beliefs. For example, Christians who aren't illiterate consider those who follow Judaism and reject Jesus as the Messiah to be Sons of Satans because this is what Jesus called them. However, if you're speaking secularly as you claim, you have no basis to judge all adherents to Islam. Your judgments are not based upon the religion which you have no knowledge of - your beliefs are based on race.

Your silly argument about Nobel prizes is a perfect example. The Nobel Prize in physics has never been given to an indigenous sub-Saharan African. What does that mean? The Nobel peace prize is a western prize generally given to westerners? The indigenous people of Africa have been oppressed by Western Civilization through the evils of colonialism? I know! This is the one you believe, right? Sub-Saharan African culture is hateful and they need to give up their hate before they can succeed!

No. There is not a deeper motivation. Israel wants to either kick out or murder all of the Palestinians and steal or destroy all of their property.

 

Silly? It's an example of how the group contributes to the civilization they are part of. All people have the potential to be positive contributors. Not all in the same way, but everyone has something of value. It's up to them to find those things and make the most of them. Cultures tend to promote or obstruct the thinking that allows that. Read up on the Nobels, you will find all kinds of cultures represented. It's the difference in ratio to popultion that makes the Jewish ones stand out.

Since I'm not religious in any normal fashion (I'm a naturalist, Mother Nature is the higher power) the allegations that religious beliefs tilt my views is wrong.

When a conflict like this exists, it's like a feud that started so long ago that those part of it may not have any idea how or why it started. The average radical Islamist was conditioned to think that way from childhood. He doesn't hate because the Jews offended him, and he sees nothing wrong with offending Jews. It's normalized, not reaction to events.

In these conditions, the "rules" don't apply. Because rules only work when both sides comply with them. If one side doesn't it requires fighting fire with fire.
Israel is a country that has been experiencing rocket attacks for decades. Some home built, some supplied by other countries supporting terrorism. Not just a few rockets- thousands of them. Even since the Oct. 7th attack- 7,400 of them. Last April 6-7, 40 from Gaza, 34 from Lebanon. In 2022, August 5-8, 1100 rockets were fired from Gaza. 2021, May 10-20, 4,369 mostly from Gaza. 2021 the top days were Feb 23-24 when 90 rockets came. They don't just come in bursts, either. The days between are frequently punctuated with one or more. Isreal has the most sophisticated rocket- defense system anywhere, they chose to shield themselves rather than respond with war. Obviously- the Palestinians have been dedicated to starting a war for decades. Oct 7th was planned to be s outrageous it would start that war- so they got their way. How many years of constant bombardment from your neighbors do you tolerate before you say enough?

Do you think that the constant bombardment is going to create hostility and motivation to strike out? Justification for it?

People- any people- can get along, IF they respect each other. That requires certain values for life and rights on BOTH sides. This has never happened in regard to Israel, or for that matter with Jews. There has always been people wanting to kill them.

It's a fact of human nature that poor people will blame the rich for their being poor. Failing people will blame those who succeed- and think that by bringing down those who excel, they will somehow raise themselves up to the same level. Weak people- physically, but especially morally- often hate strong ones. Human weaknesses like this are our worst enemies. The Jews chose to excel. The Muslims chose to get even with them for doing so- and not being Muslims.

This is part of what the Nobel awards tell us. The Jewish people hold very strong family values. They practice and teach character, responsibility and achievement, and they build strength into their children. I've known quite a few- and I will say they are astute businessmen, very good citizens and outstanding parents. I have done a lot of business with them. Never been lied to or cheated. Not once. I can't say that about any other group, and I do business all over the world.

You can chose to hate whomever you like. The degree to which you deceive yourself however, is nobody's fault but your own.

 

If a man murders a policeman's wife. The policeman can murder the man's wife. That the logical conclusion of what you've said.

Palestinians have been experiencing far more oppression from Israel for a far longer period of time. The rocket attacks are irrelevant in comparison unless you're blinded by hate for the Palestinians. Israel kidnaps far more Palestinians.

Nope the sole reason was to destroy the military and militarized kibbutz as well as take hostages to exchange for Palestinian hostages. There is no war - there never has been. Israel is putting down a rebellion in their occupied territories in an illegal fashion constituting war crimes.

It's Israel's occupied territory, so technically, they're bombarding themselves. I would say stop doing the things which have caused the people in that territory to feel the need to fire mostly harmless bottle rockets at you.

Israel doesn't need justification. They just want the world to look the other way like you do.

 

Forcing civilians to move in an occupied territory is a war crime. Why do you support war crimes?

 

Your thinking is way too distorted to have any kind of reasonable discussion. You're just making a game of it.

Bantering and baiting never solves anything, and it never really makes people feel superior as they expect it will- it just deceives them.

You have nothing to say that matters to me.

 

Just stating the actual law which you don’t seem to like. I accept your capitulation.

 

Think harder. Israel didn't force Palestinians to evacuate, they warned them of a coming battle and told them to go for their own safety. However, Hamas, their own government, told them to stay put and by some reports forced them too.

If you are going to think- try finding the facts before you decide on your conclusion. Gives you better answers. If you are just going to parrot some narrative, you don't have to think. Some like that.

 

Then, you lie to yourself to feed your own ego.

 

You should take your own advice.

Telling people to move or you’ll bomb them is not forcing them to move?

Do you read your own posts?

Sorry, but Israel occupies it. Israel is the government.

You’re projecting.

 

Isreal continues to righteously defend itself, and left wing hamas supporters continue to berate them for it.

 

And you are feeding your own fabrication to avoid the facts. You may read my post- but you fail to see anything you don't want to see or can't distort.

FACT- Israel never threatened to bomb the civilians. IF it had intended to bomb civilians, it would not have warned them in advance to leave the war zone.

FACT- Militants in Gaza have been attacking civilians in Israel without warning, launching rockets nearly every day for many years. Tens of thousands of rockets.

FACT- Israel does not occupy the Gaza strip. It does control the areas around Gaza, in an effort to block the import of arms, mostly rockets, which the Palestinians try to bring in.

FACT- Gaza is a self-governing Palestinian territory next to Egypt and Israel. Israel left Gaza in 2005 when the Disengagement Plan (Israeli law) went into effect. Palestinians in Gaza then held an election and selected Hamas as their government. What they have, and the conditions that have resulted, are the results of the choices of the Palestinian people.

 

Second is that the hatred of the Palestinians toward the Jews is sustained not by reason, but by dictates of the Islamic religion.
Islam accepts the Old and New Testament, Moses and Jesus are prophets in Islam !!!!

 

English Lawyer, Malcolm Shaw, who works at Leicester University, has accepted the role of defending Israel in this international court case. He is not Jewish. The British minister for Defence, grant shapps, is though and he will be watching this case carefully.