There is no Omnipotence Paradox

Just so you don't have to go back and look, you are asserting "of course" you do have freewill but I have to wonder why you are so sure of that when I, a Christian theist, am not.

Let's say that you have two choices for dinner,a steak or a hot dog and you chose the steak. What makes you think that you could have chosen the hot dog , the fact that you didn't choose the hot dog or the illusion that you could have ?

Perhaps you desired a steak more than the hot dog, or you think a steak is healthier,etc.. These things influence your decision making to the inevitability that you really only had one choice and that was the one you made.

Even if you play 'Eeny, meeny, miny, moe' with your dinner choice renders your only choice of dinner to 'not your choice' of dinner but your choice to play Eeny,meeny,miny,moe.

 

They claimed to have conversations with the Holy Spirit (speak to God) just like you do. On the basis of this claim they spent over 1000 years killing torturing and persecuting folks they did not like.

Can you provide objective emperical evidence that they were not more Christian than you ?

If you really held daily convo's with God like you claim then you should be able to offer up an explanation for how the Spectacled Bear made it back to South America from the Ark.

All I know is that you have developed some strong denial mechanisms such that whenever you feel your beliefs are threatened you warp into existential nonsense land such denying history, archaeology, logic and science by claiming that unless one was there to witness an event personally it is not credible.

When faced with the reality that tis means that none of the Bible is credible you start claiming to know the truth because of your conversations with God yet can not answer simple questions about Bible history.

Did God forget ?

 

Abandoned the argument, not logic. It is hard to abandon something that is absent to begin with.

 

Good point... it is hard to abandon something that was not present to begin with... therefore, there was no argument to begin with and therefore no need for logic or any other philosophy to be involved. TY GO.

BTW: the argument has not been abandoned either... why ??? because he has not shown where I ever referenced any 'magic' prior to his introducing that subject. Now you are joining him in that false claim which has not been substantiated. He brought up the subject of magic, and made the claim that I had made an appeal to magic and now it is his responsibility to PROVE that I have made an appeal to magic.

 

I know better than to accept a Hobson's choice.

My response both meets the burden of evidential support and exposes the "challenge" to be a farce. Two birds, one stone.

A grand circumstance!

 

You not only abandoned it, you declared that "it amounts to nothing" here:

This was an intellectual punt of the first magnitude, followed by an appeal to magic.

 

It's queer how everything else that exists in the universe makes sense to us logically.

Also queer is how things that most people agree do not exist do not make logical sense.

But then you have God who is the only Thing in existence that somehow makes our well-established ideas of logic seem infantile. So queer.

It's almost like God has all the properties of a thing that does not exist, but exists at the same time.

I guess that's just another part of His magic. Ultimate infinite, ultimate logic, knows the future but that doesn't limit Him from letting humans decide the future on our own whims... just the ultimate Queer.

 

That is not abandoning 'logic', that is merely giving you my opinion of YOUR PREFERRED system of logic. SO you are ever so wrong again.

 

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Now WKA, will you please provide the necessary information with regard to the alleged system of "magic" that you are accusing me of making an appeal to? Also, when providing that information, also provide objective empirical evidence that the alleged system of "magic" is in FACT "magic".

 

Again, more spinning and quibbling in the face of the explicit abandonment of logic and your subsequent appeal to magic.

If it embarrasses you this much to abandon logic and appeal to magic, then perhaps you would be wiser to stop doing it rather than do it and pretend you didn't.

 

You keep on repeating the same argument about an abandoning of logic, when in fact I have not abandoned logic, but have simply stated my opinion on your preferred choice of system of logic. Your choice system of logic sucks.

Your system of logic seems to falter exceedingly when it is confronted with the fact that there are other systems of logic which others prefer.

 

You mean like, ummm, magic?

 

There you go again, abandoning logic.

And there you go again, appealing to magic.

 

The appeal to God and the Bible is not magic. It is certainly supernatural, but not magic. Its source is not in the individual to conjur up something. The Source is God, and the Holy Spirit of God, and the Son, Jesus Christ who sits at the right hand of God.

Faith is not magic. It is real, as the Spriit of God enlightens the soul of man to see and believe, and the man sees and believes. He is then born-again. He then has a whole field of knowing, and study to do in the spiritual realm having to do with God. Spiritual, not magical. Real, not trickery. And within this new access to knowing and study, the Christian does exercise reason and logic, and thought. But its not the reason or logic of the world. Its that of the Spirit of God.

Quantrill

 

What is or is not "magic" does not depend on who is the actor. Magic is the claimed art of manipulating aspects of reality either by supernatural means or through knowledge of occult laws unknown to science. The action of a God perfectly meets that definition, the actions of the Biblical God and his minions explicitly included.

Parting the red sea is magic. Raising the dead is magic. Walking on water is magic.

No. It's not. But changing water into wine? That's magic!

You can call a pebble a golden nugget, and it's still a pebble.

There is no logic other than "the reason or logic of the world." This again is the abandonment of that logic and and an appeal to magic. You are perfectly welcome to believe that if you choose. But then do not pretend to be able to logically defend your beliefs.

 

Unexplained phenomena is magic ?

 

No.

Magic is the claimed art of manipulating aspects of reality either by supernatural means or through knowledge of occult laws unknown to science.

 

That would make it sound like science is incompetent or ignorant of certain aspects of life. BTW: What is your preferred definition of the term "occult"?

Do any of the following terms sound familiar to you?

"Thesaurus Legend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. occult - supernatural forces and events and beings collectivelyoccult - supernatural forces and events and beings collectively; "She doesn't believe in the supernatural"
supernatural
causal agency, causal agent, cause - any entity that produces an effect or is responsible for events or results
spiritual being, supernatural being - an incorporeal being believed to have powers to affect the course of human events
theurgy - the effect of supernatural or divine intervention in human affairs
destiny, fate - the ultimate agency regarded as predetermining the course of events (often personified as a woman); "we are helpless in the face of destiny"
2. occult - supernatural practices and techniques; "he is a student of the occult"
occult arts
practice, pattern - a customary way of operation or behavior; "it is their practice to give annual raises"; "they changed their dietary pattern"

 

Why assume that those events described a few thousand years ago were magic then ?

Or supernatural for that matter.

 

Scientists can now be referred to as practitioners of the Occult.

"
http://www.smianalytical.co.za/periodic-table.html

Stability in the Periodic Table and the Final Element

The element 114 (Uuq) has been created !

Physicists in Dubna,Russia have created a new, super-heavy element that lasted a (in Nuclear Physical terms) a surprisingly long 30 seconds before disintegrating.

Other super-heavy man made elements (both lighter and heavier, than element 114) decay in the blink of an eye-ball.

The Dubna scientists made an isotope of element 114 with 175 neutrons. This isotope of element 114 is just off the predicted "island of stability"

Scientists say it falls just short of the 184 neutrons theory dictates would be required for the Island of Stability to be reached.

If the manufactured element contained 114 protons and 184 neutrons, it would be more stable because its nucleus would have a full complement of neutrons and protons. In theory this new stabile element would last years or perhaps even thousands of years!"

The scientists have created matter that does not normally occur within nature,,, thus those elements are 'supernatural'. Because these elements were created under the guise of scientific laws, and the fact that those created elements are not permanent but have only a minute life span, the proponents of science are jealous in the fact that they cannot create anything that has the lasting effect of those things created by God. Everything man-made is limited in its life span.

 

Sorry, God does not do magic. God does it by His own will and power. Suprernatural, but not magic.

Sorry again, but that is an assumption. The Christian lives and dwells in the kingdom of God, by the Spirit. Not the world. Thus our logic and reason are exercised in that arena. Not your world.

So, do not pretend that you know there is no God or spirit world. Because you don't.

Quantrill

 

Magic by any serious definition.

Which is by any measure an explicit abandonment of logic in favor of a context in which there is no such thing; everything is simply magic.

 

Your not paying attention. Its not the definition of magic. Its real occurrance by the power of God. That is not magic. Unless your definition of magic is the real power of God in doing these things. Is that your definition?

No, again, your not paying attention. Its the use of logic and reason after one enters the kingdom of God. Not your world. Your problem is not logic and reason. Your problem is your inability to know God through the worlds logic and reason.

Quantrill

 

Whether it is true or not will not stop you.

Nonsense.

They are completely natural. They simply do not normally exist.