There is no Omnipotence Paradox

The question was: does God know all events in the Future .. not whether or not God planned the future.

Not at all. The problem was that Quants definition of predestination was different than mine.

What is your definition of Predestination ?

 

Kind of like projecting aren't you? And throughout all of that, you still have not been able to prove me wrong. All you have been able to do is make attacks without any substantive evidence to support those attacks. Just like your buddy WKA.

 

How is "knowing and planning the future" different than looking into the future ?

There is no need to look into the future if you already know what is going to happen.

If you know what is going to happen in the future you have already looked into the future ?

 

I choose neither.

You, on the other hand have no such choice. You are what you already are.

 

You don't have such an option. You were gracefully offered one of 2 only.

 

If everything is known in advance then nothing in the future can change.

If something in the future can change then it can not be known in advance.

If God knows the future, and then changes it, it means that God did not actually know the future in the first place.

If God is in complete control of everyones life, and has already planned out everyones future from beginning to end, then God is responsible for the the actions of each individual.

Interesting theory. This means that I am not responsible for my own actions !! Hip Hip Horaay. . at the pearly gates I can just say that all the bad things I did were not my fault because I had no control over my own actions and God is to blame.

If the future is known then God can not change the future without negating foreknowledge.

 

Interesting THEORY indeed. Only one problem... prove that God is obligated to adhere to the infantile logic used by man. Oh Well... you still lose. All of your arguments against God are truly pathetic, because all of your arguments are rooted in man made logic ... a system that amounts to nothing, when compared to the Omniscience of God.


YOU LOSE.

 

Your perspective is perspective of a troll who does not know God. God was, is and will be. Future, choice exist only to you. It is just impossible to read those who do not know God...God is not responsible for anything. He is God. You are responsible before God, - the suggestion of the opposite is a total ignorance of the subject you arguing. Your approach "if I was God I would .." is, I am sorry, idiotic.

 

And a very poor logic in this case.

 

You misunderstand. I am going along with your logic. I think it is quite interesting.

You claim that every action in my life has already been determined by God.

If God is controlling my actions as you suggest, then I am not responsible for anything I do. God is the one responsible for my actions and not me !

This is great !! .. I like your idea. You win and I win.

 

You are not.

You were answered 3 times.

 

And what form of 'logic' are you suggesting that I am using?

PREDESTINATION... absolutely.... no free will... absolutely... Only God has the power of PREDESTINATION, and therefore only God has control over everything... including the lives of people in this universe which includes you.

As a puppet on the string, you will do as instructed... and what happens to you after you have done as instructed is of no consequence, because it is all out of your control. God is the Sovereign, and God will rule as God pleases... the notions of justice and injustice which man holds near and dear are meaningless to God, as it is only the justice afforded by God that is of any consequence. God don't care if you are 'responsible' (as man sees responsibility) or not.. You are in His sandbox and He can do with what He created in any manner that He desires. Don't you just love predestination and the absence of free will? So when you make that appearance in front of God, make sure you cry on his shoulder about how unfair He is and watch Him laugh at you when He reminds you of how you rejected Him.

Yeah... You win... Have fun with the consolation prizes. BTW: How do you like the idea of you declaring that my idea is a winner to include the idea that God exists. You see, that is the only way that you can make such a declaration of who wins... by declaring that God does exist and that those conditions I spoke of are all because of the existence of God.

 

LOL and you know God ?

I do not claim that I am not responsible for my actions. You must have not read the post in context.

I am just explaining the logical outcome of the ideas of another poster.

Lets review:

The claim above is that everything is known in advance and predestined by God.

If the above claim is true then every one of my actions was already planned before I even existed.

I had no part in this planning and if every one of may actions is already determined then I have no power to change things.

As is stated above "God is in complete control of my life"

If God planned every one of my actions prior to my existence then how can I be responsible.

How can I be responsible for something I had zero control over ?

 

An illogical one.

Yes .. we covered this.

Why would God have any emotion at all at those who rejected him when God was the one that planned and chose the people that would reject him long before they were born.

From a personal perspective I am not worried because I do not reject God.

I do not claim to know whether or not God has predestined my life but from a personal perspective I believe in personal responsibility for ones actions.

What would worry me is if I had claimed to speak on Gods behalf, as you have done in the past, and then having to answer to God for putting words in his mouth.

 

What is there to answer ?

You have yet to comment intelligently on the content of this quote.

 

And at this post http://www.politicalforum.com/4714545-post162.html , you came into agreement with me and even stipulated that you found that form of logic interesting. Wow. How much have you had to drink tonight?

And you agreed with me and found that both of us were winners as a result.

Remember, Jesus (God in the Flesh) was 'Hbr 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. ' You see, emotions are and were involved. Wow. He does have a great sense of humor.

No, but from all indications, you reject the operation of the Holy Spirit.

Whether or not you believe in that responsibility, you will be held accountable for your actions, to include your every word and thought.

Well, you see, I am not worried about that, because I KNOW that I have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the presence of the Holy Spirit gives me the confidence and assurance that allows me to speak in the manner that I speak.

 

Nothing to drink unfortunately. I find your concept interesting because it absolves personal responsibility.

I agree that if your concept is true we are winners because no one is responsible for their actions. I do not however believe that your concept is true.

I do not believe that Jesus and God are the same entity. Jesus is the son of God, Gods messenger. This is what the Bible teaches IMO.

The Bible warns against consulting spirits.

What would I have to worry about. I do not blaspheme God by commiting the abomination of desolation .. Claiming to speak for God.

Dude(ess) .. it is your life. I am only telling you what my reading of scripture is.

If you want to claim to speak for God, I can not stop you.

 

unfortunately for you, it does not absolve personal responsibility. As you will see in the days of your life that follow. Have a nice one.

 

I believe in personal responsibility which is one of the reasons why I do not believe in your claim that everything is predetermined.

You too.

 

Then you admit to being a liar.
"If God is controlling my actions as you suggest, then I am not responsible for anything I do. God is the one responsible for my actions and not me !

This is great !! .. I like your idea. You win and I win. " Remember those words?

If you don't believe in predestination (not predetermined as you offer as an alternative term) then you need to quit all your quibbling about a distinction between Omniscience and Omnipotence. You see, I don't agree with your argumentation with regard to those two subjects.

 

Where is the lie ? Just because I like your idea does not mean I agree with it.

I like your idea because it absolves one of personal responsibility. What a happy world this would be !

Unfortunately for me I do not believe in your concept of God so I am stuck with personal responsibility.

 

Oh? So you 'like' things that are dis-agreeable to you? How quaint and confused your mind is.

So shirking your responsibility would be your idea of how to promote a 'happy world'. But wait. you just previously stated that you live up to your responsibilities... Swinging both ways now huh? "I believe in personal responsibility .."

You have no idea of what my concept of God is. Do you really think I was sincere in the things that I said as a mockery toward your notions of Omniscience and Omnipotence? You are more looney than the tunes.

 

I did not say the idea was disagreeable. I just do not believe the idea.

I like the idea of Santa Clause but do not believe in that either.

Living up to ones responsibilities is not always enjoyable. I do not like working long hours sometimes but I do it anyway.

Loony toons is thinking that God knows everything, including every human action that will happen in the future, but claiming that every human action is not predetermined.

You can not know for certain that an event will happen in the future unless it is already determined that the event in question will happen in the future.

If you believe that:

1) God created everything and
2) God knows the future - every action that will result from his creation

This implies that God created every action and everything is predetermined.

 

"Just because I like your idea does not mean I agree with it."

The message you gave above is that you disagree with it. If you do not agree with the idea, then you disagree with the idea. Therein is your lie.

"believe" was not a part of the discussion. Agree and disagree were the subjects of discussion.

How quaint. In other words, you are forced to do something that you don't necessarily agree with. So why are those things that you are forced to do responsibilities? Is there some unwritten law which tells Giftedone that he must do those things that are not enjoyable? Some force has a hold on you and you are no longer capable of resisting that force? Do you always succumb to outside (or inside) forces that compel you to do something that is not enjoyable? Are you not in control of your own life?

If only you knew how that predestination really works. Perhaps you should return to your Bible studies and stay with it for the length of time equivalent to my age, and you might then comprehend what was said in that regard.

Your statement is 100 % true, because you did not include what is possible for God.

That is correct. Now figure out how that predestination works.

 

The bible did not say if he can imagine it, he can do it. It just says he can do all things. And there is some controversy over specifically what that means.

Why would a Good God use evil when he doesn't need to? If God is picking a plan with evil in it over a just as good plan with no evil in it, then how can God be good? Wouldn't a good person avoid evil as much as possible? God is including evil for its own sake. Therefore God is not good.