Women share their abortion experiences

We interrupt this nonsense for this breaking truth:

It's both people's responsibility, even if the final determination is the mother's alone. That's the way it should be since she's the only one who will bear all the physical and most of the emotional effects of that pregnancy. However, since the mother may not choose abortion if she doesn't want one and most women probably don't want to be in an unplanned situation where they have to choose either way in the first place, both people involved ought to be careful.


We will now return to the regularly scheduled nuttery.

 

Yeah churchmouse. My plan is that every time I get pregnant in my life, and oh I will be trying to just get pregnant CONSTANTLY, is that I will literally wait until the week before I am due to give birth and then walk into Planned Parenthood and demand they give me an abortion every time. I'm hoping to do this at least 20 times in my lifetime. You know, because I totally get off on abortion. Just the very thought of it makes me quiver with excitement.

Is that what you want to hear?

Please. Give me a break. You take everything to the most extreme and make everything so black and white that it's just hilarious at this point. No but good for you church, keep on being totally, astoundingly ridiculous. It's very amusing for everyone here I assure you.

 

If only all pro-lifers shared her...enthusiasm, we'd never have to worry about all the invasive laws they are getting passed in various states. Arizona especially seems to be suffering from a bit of heat stroke. One need only watch Sheriff Joey to know that.

 

Posting to view the 6th page.

 

Yeah and I live in Arizona too. I didn't vote for Sheriff Joe either. I hate that guy so much. He is such an arrogant (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) and he only cares about meddling in politics and being in the spotlight rather than actually doing his freaking job. He likes being a celebrity I think. I saw him once at a local event over in Fountain Hills, AZ and he was signing pink underwear for people (due to his whole pink undies thing for prisoners). The guy really loves the attention.

 

The government should make this required listening music in abortion clinic waiting rooms:

[video=youtube;xVIiRDtkLBs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVIiRDtkLBs[/video]

 

Can you quote me the place in the bible where its says abortion is wrong .. Oh and by the way I just knew you had "found" religion.

 

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
Jeremiah 1:5

"Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?"
Job 31:15

"Lo, children [are] an heritage of the Lord: [and] the fruit of the womb [is his] reward."
Psalms 127:3-5

"Thou shalt not kill."
Exodus 20:13

*for the exact translation of "kill" in the original hebrew
http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nokilling.html

"Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother's womb."
Numbers 12:12

"Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me."
Matthew 25:40

"Cursed [is] he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen."
Deuteronomy 27:25

"A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood"
Proverbs 6:17

 

We can find just as many other verses, if not more, of this same God declaring his people murder innocent children and pregnant women. So yeah, hypocritical deity who can't make up his own mind on whether life is precious or not.

 

different people react different,

some can't handle abortion...
some can't handle birth control...
some can't handle giving their child to a stranger (adoption)
some can't handle raising children...

you can find as many effected by not having a child as those you can find having a child

heck, if Andrea Yates would of used birth control or had a abortion it may of saved the lives of four children

.

 

and these prove what?
I asked where in the bible it says abortion is wrong, none of these do .. you also need to see the context of each of these cherry picked items when read with the rest so lets do that shall we.

1. Jeremiah 1, the whole item is about one person and his destiny to be a prophet .. nothing about abortion. - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+1&version=NIV
2. Job 31, this about a lament about the way someone has treated servants, where the question asked is were they not the same as he .. nothing about abortion - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+31&version=NIV
3. Psalms 127, About being fruit-fall and having lots of children .. nothing about abortion - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalms 127&version=NIV
4. Exodus 20:13, The only one that could give your stance some respectability, however I'll come to this one at the end.
5. Numbers 12, a simile when god blights Miriam with leprosy, Moses asks god not to make her like "a stillborn infant coming from its mother’s womb with its flesh half eaten away" .. nothing about abortion
6. Matthew 25 (The sheep & The Goats), The king basically saying that whatever you did for his subjects you did for him .. nothing about abortion
7. Deuteronomy 27:25 , nice try, but this depends on which branch of Christianity you follow, Catholics for example believe all are born sinners because of the original sin .. still nothing about abortion.
8 Proverbs 6. see number 7

Now lets look at "thou shalt not kill (or murder)", don't you find this a little hypocritical? Take a look at what else the bible tells us

The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.

And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. -- Leviticus 27:6

Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.

Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16

God sometimes approves of killing fetuses.

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. -- Numbers 31:15-17
(Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)

Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. -- Hosea 9:14

Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:16

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. -- Hosea 13:16

God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.

Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14

God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.

The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.

Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. -- Genesis 38:24

 

I'm not churchmouse, but I'll share an experience. As an undergrad, I loaned a friend $300 to get his girlfriend, at the time, an abortion. Didn't think anything of it in terms of the morality. My bigger concern was when would I get paid back.

Fast forward 20 years or so, I look more of it as being an accomplice to a heinous act...and would be more vocal about speaking up for the unborn. The key, in my estimation, is to avoid putting yourself in a situation that would possibly lead to the consideration of terminating a pregnancy...from the male perspective. Treat the sexual act, intercourse with the respect it is due. It is an act, a choice which may lead to the creation of new life. If a man is not ready for or does not want a child at that time...do no engage in the behavior which may lead to creating a child.

Keep your pants zipped. My moral beliefs now are that abortion is wrong. I don't condemn those who have had one, that's God's job to judge...however please recognize it as a wrong. Forgive yourself, and learn from the experience.

Respect life, respect the sexual act...for what it is, the creation of an innocent being.

 

A word in one of your paragraphs brought to mind a portion of program watched (but not finished) last evening. It recounted a demonic infestation of a residence. A child in the house claimed an unseen companion by the name of Moloch .

A peripheral part of this exorcism involved some historical research on the property. Local neighborhood history has it that a doctor committed abortions there, modern human sacrifice.

Just as darkness retreats from the advancing Sunrise...so it is even now, with all its worldly appeal and the power it holds over its practitioners, Evil still shrinks from the Light.

 

So the Bible seems to be saying abortions should be banned after 4 weeks into the pregnancy?

More likely the reason was that it would have been difficult to determine whether conception had even taken place at such an early stage. The ammounts may have more to do with probability than intrinsic worth of the embryo. There are also ammounts proscribed for the accidental killing of adults ("blood money"), so it is not as if this implies that fetuses were seen differently.

So by your logic, infants that are not yet 1 month old out of the womb are not people? This has nothing to do with whether they are people or not. Apparently little babies were not yet considered members of the House of Levi.

This is another person commanding it to be done, not God. Judah's judgement was not necessarily justified by God.

None of these examples involve God commanding people to kill fetuses. Some of these verses are just prophecies, about what will happen in the future. It goes back to the Dilemma of Evil. Basically we can say that God lets abortions naturally happen in some cases. In some cases, God might do the killing himself, but in that case he is justified, being God, and having formed the person in the womb to begin with. If God wipes out a city, that does not mean it is okay for people to. Often people want to pretend that they are god, and that whatever they do is okay.

 

Oh! For.............

Not everything on TV is true..........................

 

You know first hand what abortion was like for YOU. You can only speak for yourself, because abortion affects each woman differently. Most women report they only felt relief. What you DON'T know first hand is how it feels to be forced to bear a child, yet that is what you advocate for others.

The anti-abortion side lurks around abortion sites claiming a one-celled zygote is a person and women have no rights to their own bodies, and they should be punished for having sex.

Then why do you come here? To tell the "pro-aborts" how evil they are? Is that the "food that feeds you"?

 

Or the internet? But with a certainty you are of the opinion that this is an inaccurate accounting of the events in this household?

I take (personal) assurance from Nature that there is a Nature's Creator. From science, that something comes next in that matter is neither completely created or destroyed (but transitioned?). The complexity of life at its beginning, let alone the miracle found in the functions of the human body, make the thought of attributing all things we see, hear and feel to an accidental cosmic happenstance is, for me, beyond belief. Of course you'll have your own opinion.

In my time on earth I know of and have seen evil firsthand so for me, contrary to what might be another's worldly experience and opinion, that (evil) is real and conducted with a mindful purpose too. Am acquainted with non-religious folks who walk a line where the opportunity (that they seek out) for events sourced by an entity, such as the one in the program referenced prior, is possible. These folks (formerly worked with some of them in their professional careers) have shown and documented scratches, bruises and bite marks on their bodies (after a -closed for sometime-history of murders and executions having taken place there- prison visit, among other places). When we worked together professionally we ran towards what others were running away from. They are good people you can count on and I understand their interest but I didn't want to be involved in any part of what they were/are seeking out.

So can one believe the events portrayed in the program as accurate and unembellished? Hostage to the Devil might be an interesting read for you.

 

Malachi Martin on abortion:

"I do not believe that human governments have anything to say to the inner decisions of a man or woman. Those decisions must be made in the light of their religious education and their religious tradition. But the last thing in the world that I want to interfere with, that is government. They should have nothing to do with it."

 

Just because the human mind cannot fathom something or finds it to be too complex does not mean that it is or means that it had to have been created by someone or something.

For example, if I were to go back in time 500 years and speak with the people of that time and note how their lack of bathing and cleanliness is dangerous to their health they wouldn't understand. It is common knowledge to us now that cleanliness is important to our health because of microscopic germs and bacteria. People back then though couldn't even fathom such a thing and it would be mind boggling to them just as it was when we first discovered it. Now however it is just common knowledge, we are used to the idea that there are microscopic organisms everywhere. We have an explanation for most diseases now, germs and viruses. Back then though, it must have been because god hated you or you did something wrong.

Just remember that as we continue to gain new knowledge, while it may seem confusing or too complex at first, it will eventually become common knowledge for the next generation. People have long been claiming the complex or unexplainable as "God did it" but as we continue to learn we are finding out more and more, "God did not do it, it was simply nature."

 

I think human nature for ninety-eight percent of us (sociopathic tendencies for two percent) is consistent. Thinking one poster's feelings are unique only to her and invalidate those emotions as a potential part of other's makeup or feelings could be in error, statistically speaking. In my opinion PTSD is a symptom of a conscience that is struggling to accept past actions that we regret.

Mothers who lost and are losing their children to those who promote abortion as a valid, reasonable and responsible behavior need to understand that counseling and forgiveness is their best choice now. It may seem she alone carries a burden but it is for others to shoulder too. Many will attempt to avoid responsibility by saying hey, it was her choice.

Immorality, in my opinion, is best avoided.

In Darkness all paths can be argued as affording equal footing. I think evil is like darkness and we, sometimes, cannot easily see where we are and where we are headed when we choose it as our guiding companion.

 

The Jews were a target back then because they did not suffer the fatalities from the plagues in the numbers other groups did...but they did have the ritualistic cleansing/washing that perhaps reduced or minimized their exposure.

Where did Nature come from? Its source, origination? I guess with that undisputed (no such thing in this world) answer we'd know it all.

 

We don't know how everything started and we don't know why some things happen in nature, but that is the purpose of Scientific progress, to analyze, discover and better understand the world around us. I don't see the point in absolutely stating that a deity created it all as there is no Scientific evidence for that, nor is there any yet for any other theories of how everything came to exist. But to just sit here and say, "God did it end of story." that is extremely hindering to the progress of discovery. If you want to just stop exploring the world and trying to understand it and instead say a god made it all the end, that is fine, however the rest of us will continue learning and seeking truth and understanding.

 

An interesting man, what I know of him anyway, which isn't a ton. Are you comfortable with claiming he was an abortion advocate? I don't know one way or the other, he was a member of the Catholic Priesthood and that would seem to be a bit of an issue, at odds with the documented Church's teachings and position (organizations under the Church's authority are presently battling against the abortion mandate in Obamacare).

I can look at your quote above and see a God-given right to a conscience and to make moral decisions based on the expectation of guidance from a personal God and not to be influenced by a worldly government (render unto Caesar...).

Also an unspoken concern for worldly government usurping one's conscience...I agree they really shouldn't be doing that. Look at the HHS dictating the conscience of man with Obamacare and its desire for on demand abortions. Laws define illegal actions, recently government has begun judging thoughts as criminal activity or reasons to deprive citizens of rights.

Your familiarization with Martin and his belief or documented position on the morality and support of abortion is?

If his position is anti-abortion and you would post a statement attributed him as something other than that would you classify that act as good or evil? I know good for you and yours Now if he is pro-abortion then you have, in my opinion, done us all a Godly-inspired service. The Truth shall set you free.

 

I know, I know but how did mankind come to be? Science must have some sort of explanation.

 

Okay - then answer this:-

Were abortion to be made not just illegal but illegal in retrospect - what punishment should you have to undergo?