Women share their abortion experiences

It does but it is not something one can compress into a 1,000 word post but I will give you a hint

Evolution and time had something to do with it

 

Quite frankly I don't believe anyone will be able to answer that age old question of 'How did everything come to exist?' Not Science and most certainly not religion. We can speculate forever and ever however until someone invents a time machine and is able to travel back into the beginning of it all and actually observe what happened we'll never know. I don't believe that saying, "We can't explain it so it must have been God!" is a good answer either.

Taking an educated guess however I would say mankind has gotten to this point through evolution. Evolution is a fact, it is happening in many animals and even viruses, it is something that can actually be observed. It only takes an educated guess based on what we know to be true to speculate how we came to exist.

 

Now you see this is why religion shouldn't be used to prove a point either way, because the words written are open to interpretation, you interpret them to mean 4 weeks after conception, others, including me, interpret it to mean 4 weeks after birth, "More likely" - means nothing, this is just your opinion.

This is what is written in the bible, see it as you will. .. again interpretation.

not at all this is a person following the law as written by god, so if he didn't follow it then he would be breaking god's law .. who is he to second guess what god actually wanted?

So you are happy with the god you worship being a murderer of mothers, children and the unborn then .. glad we got that straight.

You still haven't answered the question BTW, Where in the bible does it say anything about abortion?

 

He isn't an abortion advocate, he's an abortion rights advocate. You recommended his book about exorcism to support your belief of evil around us, but it is interesting to me that he doesn't seem to think abortion is evil.

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There is no abortion mandate; do you mean contraception mandate?

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Again, do you mean contraception? The contraception that Hobby Lobby is protesting does not cause abortion, whether Hobby Lobby "believes" it does, or not.

"The International Federation of Gynecology and Obstetrics issued a statement saying that pills with Plan B’s active ingredient “do not inhibit implantation.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/h...tion-science-suggests.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

 

You can be very direct when you want to be, in a 1000 words or less...on second thought make it a lot less...unmedicated ADD you see.

Does evolution/science prove that God/Creator does not exist? Where or in what does evolution, time, space etc. have its beginning? Are we going back to the "Big Bang Theory/Let there be Light" event or before that? If matter is neither created or destroyed what (or dare I say Whom), in heaven's name, is responsible for that? Pick any manmade marvel, consider its complexity of engineering and does it not pale in comparison to the human machine? So computers, bridges, spacecraft, etc. need a creator or engineer but the human body just, by cosmic chance, happens?

Do you believe and is there proof that man is a descendant of apes? I'm sure many modern women of dating/marriage age share your sentiment but has there been a discovered missing/connecting link?

 

I did find it an interesting read. Perhaps you will too.

I didn't read the statement you posted in the way you hoped I might. In fact I answered with this;

Do you have a documented statement where he explicitly says he is for abortion? What did he think of Baal or Moloch/Molech?

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It's important to distinguish the two philosophical camps in this debate. A woman may recognize abortion as wrong, but because of financial pressures and/or the lack of a support system...over-rides her conscience and chooses abortion. Another may view abortion as merely a solution to a problem with no after thought as to the right or wrong aspect to the decision.

So the question is, is abortion wrong?

If it is...why is it wrong. If it isn't, why is it ok, or not a wrong.

Let's go beyond "the Bible says so, or the Bible doesn't say so."

By definition, an abortion is a medical procedure removing a fetus from a woman's womb...terminating a pregnancy. Regardless of the stage of the fetus, the end result terminates an unwanted pregnancy.

Some will argue that forcing the woman to carry out the pregnancy to full term is what is wrong. However that avoids the issue of is terminating the pregnancy wrong?

Purely in biological terms, the fetus is a separate entity with separate DNA from the mother. Abortion terminates the life of this entity. It may not feel pain, it may not be self-aware; however in purely scientific terms...this entity is killed, it's life ends, however fundamental that life may be. The life is extinguished. I therefore believe abortion is wrong because it kills a life as a matter of convenience created by poor judgment.

 

I never claimed he was "for abortion." He is for abortion rights. I don't know if he opposes abortion, but he said the government should not interfere in personal life decisions. If he thought abortion were evil, or murder, he most likely would not have made pro-choice statements. The following is from an Art Bell interview transcript:

 

Yes, they have been providing contraceptives, including Plan B and Ella. Only after the Obamacare mandate did Hobby Lobby and others decide that providing them violated their religious freedom and stopped providing them. The government would fine them for breaking Federal Law. If Hobby Lobby
can refuse to provide birth control covered by insurance because it conflicts with their religious beliefs, then a Jehovah's witness could deny blood transfusions, a Mormon can refuse to cover medicine with alcohol in it. Should employers make medical decisions for their employees? Ironically, research has shown that the Obamacare contraception mandate would reduce abortions.

One more question, why do conservatives believe forcing Hobby Lobby to provide contraception violates its religious freedom, but criminalizing abortion and forcing a woman to bear children against her will doesn't violate her religious freedom?



Plan B and Ella are not abortifacients. From the Catholic Health Association of the United States (CHA) January-February 2010 issue of their journal Health Progress:

http://ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/what-abortifacient-and-what-it-isnt

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news...ire-religious-employers-to-provide-abortions/

 

You are hung up on whether abortion is "wrong." Laws are not a matter of right or wrong. All sorts of "wrong" actions are still legal, one can lie, say almost anything under protection of the BofR, one can envy, one can commit adultery,and those actions are legal. You must show that the "wrong" action affects society in a detrimental way to justify criminalizing an action.

You are also hung up on punishment. You believe abortion is "wrong" because it is "convenient" for a woman, I suppose that if the abortion hurt her as much as a pregnancy/childbirth, you wouldn't care.

 

He stated that, did he? I, Malachi Martin am for abortion rights? I'm not so sure.

M.M. did reference vested interests, money and politics as part of the abortion issue as well as the attempt/strategy to confuse/hide the immoral basis of the abortion industry. M.M. talks about privacy and references free will and looking and adhering to religious beliefs and customs. But I don't think M.M. supports what you say M.M. does, at least not by your present evidence. Besides didn't government discover a right and the power to offer up abortion? You and those standing with you may not want to be so quick to jump on the anti-government bandwagon.

Government, in my opinion, overreaches when it goes outside of its enumerated powers authority. But I do believe it is better served when guided by moral and God fearing leaders. I do not want government to be the enforcement arm of a state religion either, God doesn't need it and humanist would scourge the ranks of those with another view/faith.

My, my- Art Bell, Coast to Coast as a definitive reference...Cady are you an (out of the closet?) A.B. fan?

 

What do you have against morality? What do you think laws have a basis in...could it be morality? Try telling a lie to a federal agent during an investigation or having sex with a married military spouse that is not your own. Morale suffers in military units when offensive/immoral/illegal behavior is unchecked. It seems that society was a little better off fifty plus years ago because of the collective (but not total) reverence for its institutions, today not so much. Maybe that's before your time.

Where is punishment mentioned by Herk?

You are a true believer and often come across (imo) as quite angry. I've said a prayer for you.

 

You'd be angry too if someone told you that you shouldn't have full medical authority over your own body, health and life just because you were pregnant.

 

I am sorry that you are angry too.

 

Well it seems only natural to be angry when other people try to intervene in your life and force you to do things you do not want to do, especially if they directly affect your health and well being.

 

If he doesn't think the government should intervene, then who does he think is going to stop her from terminating a pregnancy?

"Those decisions must be made in the light of their religious education and their religious tradition." Whose decisions is he talking about here?

You are confusing the support of abortion with support of abortion rights. He may be against abortion, but if he doesn't think it should be criminalized, then he supports abortion rights, nevertheless. FYI, there are many who may oppose abortion, but still believe that a woman's right to her own body doesn't end once she becomes pregnant. For example, in the following article, a prolife doctor supports a woman's right to abortion:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2012/01/granting-rights-fetus-cost-mother.html

"Moral and God fearing leaders" by whose standards? You probably believe George W. Bush was a moral leader, but I saw no evidence of that. You apparently think Hobby Lobby owners have wonderful Christian values, but by disrespecting the laws of the country and refusing to provide some types of non-abortifacient contraceptives in order to make a political statement, they are undoubtedly contributing to increased abortions.

Art Bell was not the reference; I was quoting Malachi Martin from an Art Bell interview. How does that make me a fan?

 

You couldn't be more wrong had you dedicated your life to the task.

An action being legal is one thing, an action being protected under the BoR, quite another. For one thing, nothing in the Constitution is properly interpreted to protect immoral behavior, since that is antithetical to the objectives of the Constitution as articulated in the Preamble. For another, the BoR is only protective of individual liberties by way of the restrictions it places on government; and nothing in it prevents any state from legislating against envy or adultery, as long enforcement is within constitutional bounds.

Anyone who thinks envy doesn't affect society detrimentally has no business voting.

 

Morality is a good thing, it's just not a good basis for law.

There are limited circumstances when lying is illegal, those circumstances are those that clearly result in disorder and chaos in society when practiced. Society doesn't care, in fact we approve, if you tell your classmate "she hasn't changed a bit" or tell your wife "no, that dress doesn't make you look fat." Military regulations are not the same as law, although the military seems to have a difficult time enforcing their "morality" regulations also. Whenever people talk about how wonderful it was fifty years ago, or in the 1950's, I wonder about their memories.

The word "punishment" doesn't have to be used, for instance "punishment" is synonymous with "consequences" for many pro-lifers. My anger is just your opinion which seems to be faulty in several areas.

 

Pro-ChoiceMurder advocates offer no choice.

A Granddaughter looks to her Grannie for advice, "Grandma, I am pregnant what is my choice"

Grannie replies in the coldest tone possible, "If you keep the baby it will destroy your life, you will be changing crappy drapers while your friends are out having fun, you will not have a life, it will keep you up all night screaming and crying, you will be broke and have to go on welfare."

Pro-Choice/Murder does not offer a choice

 

While I understand what you have pointed to here, it is a very black and white analysis of the situation .. right & wrong are not just about that, you have failed to take into account other factors that add weight to either it being right or wrong. Your summary is also based on the assumption that a life is taken "as a matter of convenience created by poor judgment." which is a pretty wide brush to use.
You state (rightly) that the fetus is a separate entity with separate DNA, however in the earlier stages of pregnancy the zygote/fetus has more in common with a non-destructive parasite (which is also a separate entity, with separate DNA), the main difference being of course is that a parasite is normally of a different species to the host.

 

Everybody wants to rule the world, don't they? Health, safety, security etc.? Bloomberg with soda container volume, salt, trans fats and firearms? The President and Democrats that want to dictate healthcare choices, options, treatment as well as government access to individual American's medical info? The President and Democrats using a tragedy or "crisis" (pick one-a political means to an end) to attack personal liberties (healthcare) and specifically the Second Amendment with the intent to disarm American citizens who have committed no crime? Angry? No, but I am wondering how did we as a nation decline so quickly?

 

Cady/OKgrannie, Any thoughts on Natural Law? Part of our system, history? Applicable to the act of taking the life of the unborn?

 

I agree with Mark Silk...

http://marksilk.religionnews.com/2013/01/03/the-natural-law-scam/

 

I certainly don't want to rule the world, but I do want to rule and govern my own body and medical health, as most people do.

Not a Democrat, didn't vote for Obama, don't really care, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. In fact what the pro-lifers are trying to do, which is attempt to restrict a woman's right to govern her own body is on par with the Dems and Obama, they want bigger government and more intrusion into people's lives. Lovely. Perhaps lifers should consider switching party lines?

I am in favor of keeping the Second Amendment as it is. I recently looked into the reasoning behind the Founding Father's own words when writing the amendment and it makes perfect sense to me. However I am not a firearms owner, I do not know how to operate a firearm, I have never had any interest in them and it is a topic that simply does not interest me. My rights as a woman and my right to carry my future pregnancies to term in my own way or to have an abortion do though so I am here to debate it.

If you want to discuss the Second Amendment I will gladly direct you to the most relevant forum for discussing it > http://www.politicalforum.com/gun-control/

 

If you get pregnant when you do not want to how are you ruling and governing your own body?