But you see, that is where you are wrong. He has the scriptural authorization to do what he has done. Remember, we Christians operate through a different philosophy than do you self-enslaved material bound creatures. Now you are probably going to ask where is such authorization found in the scripture. OK... Here: "1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. 1Cr 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. " My goodness.
Except for the "different philosophy" crap, you're absolutely right. BFOJ's religion does indeed seem to justify his urge to position himself above people who don't share his religion. Hence my question if he knew what he was doing.
There is no need to prove God exists. He shall ask you your thoughts on the matter upon your last breath.
You give me too much credit. Only it's not my religion. You know exactly what I mean by getting down in the dirt for this distasteful foolishness of the naysayer attacking his Creator leaves you nowhere but groveling in the pit of hell.
Well, Inc. It's not a philosophy at all the matter of Christianity. Don't let him suck you into an argument he can't win.
God's existence can't be proven because it depends 100% on faith. He is not a physical being. He can not be proven or disproven.
But it is a philosophy: "phi·los·o·phy A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.[/QUOTE] The values taught to us through the teachings of Jesus, the Christ.
God already knows, the issue is that you don't. You did not before you came here, and you do not know now what decisions you will make. He is doing all this for your benefit. It is his work and glory. How would you feel if God went to you as an intelligence and said, I am not going to give you the chance to take on a spiritual or mortal tabernacle, because you will not make all the right choices. I have a foreknowledge of who and what you are, and you are waste of time. Or maybe he created you as a spirit, then gave you a body, then put you in your appropriate kingdom and said that is where you go. I don't have time to let you fumble through life and screw it up, I know what is going to happen, say thank you and get on with your existence. Instead, he is not only all knowing, he is perfectly just and merciful. So he lets us figure out for ourselves where we belong, so that in the end we will cry on bended knee that his judgements are just.
Hence the problem of debating the faithful. They're playing cricket while we're playing basketball. Faith being the antithesis of reason makes these discussions rather a lost cause from the word "go," entertaining as they may be. You have no way of substantiating that.
And you have no way of disproving it. Thus making your closing sentence of the first paragraph ample reason for the non-theists to stay out of the discussions involving Theism.
you can't prove that God doesn't exist - but there are certain things that indicate that the God of the bible is mythical. a God would (one would think) be somewhat less egotistical, more mature, and capable of behaving in a rational way. does God - in the broader sense - exist? well again, if God were the omniscient omnipotent being he is claimed to be - why did he make such a total (*)(*)(*)(*) up of so many things? a smart God would have designed things better. Unless of course its a God who isn't really interested in what he created. one pssibility is that a very junior God created our universe while playing in the sandpit. but I think he must have had to go and have dinner and gone to bed and forgotten about us - cos I think he's been neglecting us for a few millenia.
Your entire post speaks under the presumption that God does exist, and that God is presumed and alleged to be Omniscient and Omnipotent. Cool. The first two clauses that I have emphasized above show what two of your expectations of God are; While the second two emphasized clauses clearly show that what you expect of God is based on the manner in which you "think". Speaking now with those same presumptions in mind, I would ask you: Are you Omniscient and Omnipotent? No? If you are not Omnipotent, is it possible for you to force an Omnipotent entity to do as you would expect that entity to do? If you are not Omniscient, is it possible that God is smarter than you? If God is Omniscient and you are not Omniscient, then it would seem that your manner of thinking is subordinate to that of God. It would further be reasonable to conclude that God is not dependent upon what you think, nor is God obligated to adhere to what you think.
I can fully understand where you're coming from. I too do sometimes think that an imperfect world doesn't fall in line with the idea of a perfect God. Especially when I got up with the wrong foot on a miserable day, suffer from a headache or premenstrual tension, watch depressing news or read abysmally stupid posts in this forum etc. etc. etc. it seems obvious to me that only an utter moron would create useless nasty little creatures such as wasps and humans. But all in all I'm quite a happy little bunny and thus I think that you left out one other quite feasible possibility: The possibility that while a lot of (***) in this world does not make sense from our limited human point of view it may actually make perfect sense from God's perfect divine point of view.
absolute codswallop! what is the point of an appendix? why is childbirth so painful? why were there so many dead ends in evolution - etc etc etc HOW can any of this make sense for an omniscient omnipotent being ... unless he IS just experimenting .... now THAT would make sense ... but if thats the case, we can't be very high in the scheme of things!
If it does exist I sure hope it's not the entity any of these control freaks preach about.If it is,does Ebay sell tickets to hell ?
Totally agree! I see this world as a huge puzzle, and our limited visibility as humans allows us only to see a very small piece of that puzzle, and at times, that piece may appear all black. but when yo find the exact spot where that piece belongs, you can beginto see the nuances of colors that more pieces offer. It may still not make sense, but Eventually, in hindsight, you detect a pattern that leads to a much greater understanding of how each pieces connect together to formthewhole picture. Sometime, continuing to focus on one little black piece seems pointless, and it may be . . . For the time being, so you move on to building your own little part of the puzzle. And suddenly, as more colorful pieces fall into place, you remember that weird shaped little black piece that you set aside, and it happens to fit perfectly to create the iris of an eye. Some of us are ready to throw all the pieces away in frustration, and abandon the "vision" of a possible picture. Other have a predetermine idea of exacly (or more loosely) what the "picture should look like (mayve an old man with a long beard surrounded by angels?). And others jeep on searching, uncertain of what theyx are really looking for, but compelled to consider every little piece as an integral part of the eventual picture, uneasy with the chaos, with the "holes" in the progress of that picture, still blind to what the picture will be, but somehow trusting that the picture will eventually appear as a whole.
This is a wonderful description of what happens when we seek to fit preconceived ideas to the world. It's also interesting to see that you're subconsciously aware of it yourself when you talk about having predetermined ideas of how things are while not being aware that this is exactly what you're doing yourself. Good stuff.
thanks, I think? But what I was trying to express is that, no, some of us have given up the "need" to fit our world to our preconceive ideas, and are satisfied to continue the "work" of completing our corner of the universal puzzle without tryng to make a square piece fit into a round hole. . . .but stay open to discoveries along the way. I have giving up trying to make complete sense of all the "black pieces" when I was diagnosed with breast cancer at the age of 46, within one hour of being offered my first REAL career job (I had just received my Master degree in Social Work). I had to delay my start up day by two weeks to have the proper surgery, and I spent my first 90 days on the job receiving radiation therapy before going to work. Yet, the synchronicity of those two events was a real gift. My new career gave me a chance to focus on something else than potential death, and facing a potentially terminal disease made me a better social worker, more sensitive and supportive of my client's struggles. Today, I am a fifteen year cancer survivor, and i am retired. But I no longer look at every " black pieces" as all bad. I just take them, try to put them into perspective, and if I can't, set them aside and I go on with adding ever more pieces to "my little corner of the universe's puzzle." It may all make sense someday. If not for me, . . .maybe for people who knew me.
